I regret nothing. Say what you want.
Edit: I just saw the two typos. If you find them, you’re welcome to keep them.
if you’ve never used
ed(1)technically it’s illegal for you to say “it’s a UNIX system, i know this”The irony being that scene had a GUI and ed is, well…
?obligatory FSN links
- https://web.archive.org/web/19991009154641/http://www.sgi.com/fun/freeware/3d_navigator.html SGI webpage archive from 1999
- https://github.com/DX94-Quas/3d-file-system-navigator - SGI fsn binaries here, for IRIX versions 5.3 and below
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File_System_Visualizer - 1999 free software rewrite in C
- https://github.com/mcuelenaere/fsv - fork of 1999 version, updated 2018
- https://github.com/jtsiomb/fsnav - 2009 C++ free software rewrite, updated 2021
I coded several of my early mobile app releases entirely in gedit. Good times.
I sometimes forget how good we have it now. I wrote those apps around 2012 and the DX for the platforms was basically non-existent. Virtually every platform had shit documentation, shit version management, a shit IDE with minimal refactoring features, a shitty debugging experience, and everything felt like it was being botched together by 3 guys in their spare time.
It’s incredible now that we have things like hot reloading. You can literally save a change and BAM it’s on the screen seconds later. On native platforms no less. Astounding.
i’ve programmed in edlin. so there.
Man I just use Notepad or IDLE most of the time, I feel you man
And then there is a colleague who programs in Notepad++ directly on the test server and then just copies his code to prod.
(yes, he works alone on that project)
What about people, who just burn the machine code directly onto a CD with a laser?
Pff, real programmers use butterflies. We open our hands and let the delicate wings flap once. The disturbance ripples outward, changing the flow of the eddy currents in the upper atmosphere. These cause momentary pockets of higher-pressure air to form, which acts as lenses that deflect incoming cosmic rays, focusing them to strike the drive platter and flip the desired bit.
I do it in nano over ssh. The shortcuts suck but it gets the job done.
I used to copy code into nano over ssh. Then I randomly tried pasting the server address in my file browser and it connected over SFTP. This was ages ago. I was using Crunchbang Linux, maybe around 2011 or so.
You can enable modernbindings in nano to get standard shortcuts like ctrl-s for save.
Yep. Fancy devs watching me coding some Rakulang in nano 😂
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doesn’t vim come with the Ubuntu installation?
Learned C++ by using gedit on the Sun machines in my college’s computer lab in 2007. They were decommissioned shortly after I graduated.
Vim and emacs are text editors.
Vs code is a code editor (but really it’s also just a text editor)
Maybe they mean IDEs like visual studio?
I’ve never really heard it called a coding GUI before.
I never quite understood the massive hard-on programmers have for splitting hairs.
I see you’ve never used emacs.
“it’s a bit limited for an operating system”
Vim (and NeoVim) are as much coding environments as VS or JetBrains. The difference is in the defaults.
So an IDE is a code editor that ships with an LSP server, not just an LSP interface? (Doesn’t have to be LSP as such but “stuff that an LSP server does”).
I would say that an IDE is something that includes build/run tools integrated into it. Everything else is just a text editor. (But that’s just my opinion of course)
To expand on my point, I don’t think it makes sense to call vs code an integrated development environment if it doesn’t actually have the environment integrated.
Visual studio and idea would be examples of IDEs, they actually have all of the tools and frameworks needed to run the languages they were built for out of the box.
You can’t run node or python out of the box with just vs code for example, without their respective tooling, all vscode can do is edit the code and editing code is not functionally different from editing any other text.
So I maintain that both vim and vscode are text editors and not IDEs
Vocode integrates consoles for whatever you want. I use node and sql all the time.
I’d say build and run tools are pretty integrated into vim. Type
:makand there you go, it’s not like vs studio would be a single process either.
For me a web app IDE includes a DB manger, HTML previewer, etc.
A text editor edits text, an IDE is an Environment that Integrates Development tools.
Vim and emacs usually run in the terminal and require keyboard commands to complete actions.
A GUI IDE like vscode or pycharm has mouse driven menus and buttons, although of course it’s possible to use keyboard commands.
That to me is the difference. Personally, I use vim mod with pycharm and some messy hybrid combination of vim commands and ctrl + ?
Vim and emacs usually run in the terminal and require keyboard commands to complete actions.
It is most certainly not usual to run Emacs in the terminal.
although of course it’s possible to use keyboard commands.
And you can use Emacs with a mouse.
Vs code has no integrated environment though, it’s just a text editor that supports plugins, you still need to install python or node or .net or Java or gcc, etc.
As far as vim requiring keyboard commands, that’s really only the case if you leave mouse mode off
set mouse=aAnd of course, to muddy the water further, we have tools like https://helix-editor.com/ which, more closely approximate vs code, while happening to live in a terminal.
I maintain that in order to qualify as an IDE and not a glorified text editor, you must be able to, out of the box, without external dependencies, run and build the code it was built for (idea/visual studio) otherwise it’s not very integrated, and I don’t think you need to have nice graphics for that qualification.
Guy this is just semantics.
If you want to uphold a specific definition of what constitutes an IDE that’s fine, but what does it matter if others consider plugins to be integration.
It’s fun to talk about.
Interesting, I didn’t know that about VSCode.I’ve used it briefly and I must have always installed some default plugins to make it work with python!
The only query I’d have on that definition of IDE is that they all require an external compiler or JIT interpreter to execute code, because the versions of the compilers changes so frequently it’d be crazy to release an ‘all included’ IDE. (The old MS Visual Basic is an example of ‘all included’)
But yeah, pycharm or phpstorm are “ready to run” bar the code compiler or interpreter, I don’t have to open a terminal or something to run code I’ve written.
At one of my jobs around 2010 there was a dev in the office who wrote all his code in Notepad. When I joined the staff they were still using Classic ASP. My job was to help them (finally) migrate to ASP.Net. He intended to develop .Net apps in Notepad rather than learn how to use VS. I got laid off due to cutbacks and never found out what kind of luck he had wit dat.
I genuinely do a lot of coding in Kate, the standard KDE editor. It’s enough to do a lot of things, has highlighting, and is more than enough when you just need a quick fix.
I am also still using nano when editing stuff in the terminal. Please, don’t judge me.
To be fair, Kate isn’t just a text editor, it actually is an IDE. The text editor version would be kwrite, which would be horrible to program in.
Wow, you’re right of course. I completely forgot kwrite still existed, tbh.
Kwrite doesnt really exist on its own anymore. Its a slimmed down gui for kate now.
Oh wow you’re right, it’s basically just kate without some of the toolbars now. Hadn’t used plain kwrite in a while.
We’re almost like coding siblings lol
Yep, I came here to say that Kate is really nice. Even though I’m an emacs user and won’t use it.
Nano, on the other hand, can’t do almost anything, so I can’t recommend that people make heavy use of it. It’s ok for random small edits, but that’s it. (By the way, YSK that you can set your terminal to use Kate as the default editor by setting the $EDITOR variable.)
KWrite is the standard text editor. Kate is the advanced one. The name actually literally stands for “KDE Advanced Text Editor”
I’m not aware of distros preinstalling KWrite, though…?
Huh, I did not know that any didn’t. I just tried a bunch, and here is a quick breakdown of what was preinstalled on each:
Distro Kate KWrite Bazzite true true Fedora false true KDE Neon true false Kubuntu true false Manjaro true true openSUSE true false SteamOS true true Well, I can throw in another for free:
distro Kate kwrite openSUSE true false But yeah, interesting list. These days, KWrite is basically just Kate with different configuration, if I understand correctly, so it always feels like you might as well go with Kate. In my opinion, KWrite is also not particularly easier to use, since basic editing works the same, but I guess, that can be disagreed on.
I do like that Kate is pre-installed. Imagine Windows, but rather than notepad.exe, you get Notepad++ out of the box. Now imagine that to also be a whole lot better and then that’s what it feels like to have Kate on fresh installations.
You can just start coding something right away, without it being necessary to install a different editor.
Geany is a nice GUI option. It’s a bit more capable but still lean.
It’s probably time for me to re-evaluate the host of coding editors out there. For the most part I just use good text editors. Though I do love Spyder, I only use it for a certain subset of tasks.
Me too. I’m still not sure what the problem is and I’m kind of afraid to ask.
I do have the plugin for multi-line editing set up, I guess.
All the cool kids use vim, so using nano makes you uncool, I guess. But I use Mint, so I’m uncool anyway.
I code using grep’s search and replace.
I code using a telegraph machine in morse code.
I code using punch cards hand cutting each hole with a xacto knife
