Hello, Just trying to gain some perspective here as I was at both dealers today and for the first time laid eyes and touched the interior of both the Ioniq 5 and ID4 and I was greatly disappointed with the interior quality of the Ioniq 5 in terms of material choices. Don’t get me wrong, I think the Ioniq looks good, tech is good, and specs are good. It’s pretty much scratchy hard plastic everywhere, even in high touch areas like door armrests. In contrast I checked out 2 ID4s afterwards and was pretty much “blown” away with the materials used - when having just seen the Ioniq 5.
Is this normal? EVs aren’t cheap vehicles and I understand the big part of cost are the electrical components like the battery, but the interior quality alone is greatly steering me towards an ID4 instead of the Ioniq 5… Along with an apparent 3 year wait for the Ioniq 5 AWD in Canada.
So here’s an angle. In my area vw sells at about 5% below MSRP. With not dealer add one. Kia sells at about 5.5k over MSRP as does Hyundai. I’m seeing kias move quicker than vdubs. The Ford dealer also sells at same 5% under MSRP as well. And they are stacked up not selling at our dealer. IMHO kia/Hyundai made a stellar e-gmp platform. Vw has made an EV boring and clunky. The mustang is also no better.
I don’t know what your past experience with VW has been, but every single one I’ve encountered in 35 years of driving has had SOME sort of electrical problem. So I’d never consider them for an EV. Period.
In my area (Pennsylvania) I see substantially more ID4s than any other EV besides teslas
I’m not sitting at a charger for an hour.
Me over here waving at other ev6 drivers
I test drove both recently at top trims ID4 is missing a bit in US, there is no HUD, no ventilated seats (the trim with HUD is impossible to find). Also the small driver display was hard to use without a HUD. Generally the display interface was worse. The trunk space was also less usable since id4 trunk was narrower and 2nd row wasn’t as comfortable.
Also VW didn’t adopt NACS in US as the only remaining company so that plays a role too.
The software interface and tactile UI (horrible capacitive buttons and sliders) were deal breakers in the ID4. Every interaction required removing focus from the road to find a control and they didn’t always work. We bought an Ioniq 5 instead. Plus the range and charge speed were better.
Did you look at the SE or SEL Ioniq? The plastics are a bit better on the SEL, particularly on the doors.
I genuinely don’t mind the sliders in the ID.4; I got used to them really quickly. The controls on the steering wheel can just be used as regular buttons, and the center sliders are self-explanatory: left temperature, volume, and right temperature. Although it’s annoying that they’re not illuminated, I got the muscle memory down pretty much immediately.
The software has also been significantly improved since launch; I wouldn’t say it’s more or less responsive or reliable than Hyundai’s software, plus it has the benefit of wireless CarPlay/AA and better route planning.
Also, apparently in the IONIQ 5 for 2024, the nicer interior is exclusive to the Limited only and got cut from the SEL without a major price cut. Hyundai seems to be making the SEL trim worse every year, first cutting the better exterior lighting from the 2023 model year and then cutting a bunch of features from it, including the better interior, for the 2024 model year, which is really disappointing because the initial 2022 IONIQ 5 SEL was a pretty good value for the features you got.
The better charging is undeniable, though. The 800V system is a big benefit for the e-GMP vehicles, and the charging speed is some of the best out there, especially in its class. Range is good too, but not as big a benefit compared to its rivals compared to its charging performance.
plus it has the benefit of wireless CarPlay/AA
FYI, this isn’t really a significant benefit. It’s super easy to add an adapter for wireless CarPlay in Ioniq 5. I’ve got one in mine.
BTW, I test drove ID.4 and Ioniq 5 before settling for Ioniq 5… and I can’t say the ID.4 gave me a good impression in general. But then I think at that time the only models that were available here had the more exclusive interior? Not quite sure…
Not going to go into much more detail, most of my impressions have been covered by other comments here. But the open space between the front seats was a huge plus for me as a bigger person. I like the spacious feeling it gives.
Also, I don’t think you can get 110/220V OUT of the charging port with an adapter like you can on Ioniq 5? I didn’t think I’d need it but a actually ended up using it just a week after I got the car (needed to use an angle grinder far away from the house).
BTW, here’s the sales statistics for ID.4 from Norway for 2022:
Volkswagen ID.4: 11561
Hyundai IONIQ 5: 5044
So apparently VW ID.4 is much more popular here.
Don’t think I ever used the slider in mine. I always just used the shortcut on the bottom left of screen.
Being in Vancouver, Canada I could only lay my eyes on the base model. Seeing a base or ultimate AWD would take 3 years. Are the plastics softer? I have a 2018 Rav4 xle and it’s no luxury car by any means, but the plastics are MUCH better on my 5 year old vehicle than an Ioniq 5…
It was a little confused by your comment because when I shopped the two I found the cabin interior was much better on the ionic. The Volkswagen had a lot of piano black plastic that gets dusty and fingerprinty. The ionic has soft touch plastics at all the touch points. I was looking at the top trim though. Both are good cars but the Volkswagen is probably better value for money.
Unfortunately I never had the chance to check out any higher trim level. The Hyundai salesperson was pretty mediocre at best and wasn’t interested in helping us aside from pushing the base RWD as ANY awd model would be a 3 year wait.
yeah, I have been hearing horror stories about the limited supply of hyundais in canada. I doubt I would wait for the hyundai in that case. In canada you definitely want the AWD.
What are you doing all the time that requires you to interact with the center screen so much?
When I drive it’s just change track or volume. Things that are on the steering wheel of any new car.
In the Ioniq 5 you have to input a charger destination on the infotainment system to get battery conditioning to be enabled.
Selecting songs, picking GPS destinations mainly
And the steering wheel buttons on the ID4 were awful with no tactile feedback or sense of where they were located
Given equal pricing this would have been a deal breaker for me too. That said, general interior of the car felt plush as hell for me even on standard trim since I’m moving up from a 2010 Prius. In general I don’t touch things once I’m actually moving anyway so considered it a minor gripe that I can live with for a significantly lower price.
Why is the Ioniq 5 widely more popular than the ID4?
It isn’t. Atleast not in the real world.
The charging speed of the Ioniq 5 is exceptional. 10% to 80% in 18 minutes on a 350kW charger, slightly longer on a 150. Makes a huge difference on road trips.
Source: I own an Ioniq 5 and get these speeds when charging
Don’t forgot its still only 20 mins on a 150kw charger. Which is amazing cause people always grab the 350kw chargers.
My experience (and what I’ve heard from others) has been more like 5 minutes longer on a 150, not 2 minutes. But 5 minutes still ain’t bad!
That’s fast, but for me EA congestion is always the limiting factor, not charge speed. I’m going to drive SF to LA this week and I’m expecting about 4hrs stopped to charge, of which about 1 hour will actually be plugged in.
It takes 30 minutes to go from 20% to 80%.
Then 80% to 98% takes an additional 20 minutes.
If you want to save time and if it’s possible, it better to charge up to 80% and head to the next charger when you have 30% left. The 10% buffer is in case there’s a line or broken chargers.
The ID4’s Map app actually shows you an estimation of how much battery you’ll have left when you plan a trip.
Then for plan B, use the PlugShare App to find alternative chargers in case EA is full or broken.
I know in the SoCal area, there are many EVGo locations. Just try to avoid charging from 4PM - 9PM because that is their peak time and they charge the highest during those hours.
In Cali. Elsewhere not so much.
*cries in max 47 kW in the 2021 ioniq electric*
Same in 2022 Kia Soul EV (39.2kWh)
True, heard good stuff about the charging and it’s good looking. Went ID4 though because it was ~10k€ less than the other electric SUVs there are (VW wants to empty the lots for the facelift so they offered 9000€ rebate on those 12-18month old ones sitting around here) Ioniq5 and ev6 were high on my list, but out of my budget. Could have waited 2 years though probably for a used one.
The newest ID4 will go 10% to 80% in 30 minutes, so slower than the Hyundai, but not that much slower, and more than acceptable unless you are just road tripping all the time.
At least you can look down on the Solterra/Bzblarg for charging speeds. What’s up with the EV market claiming everything is an SUV too? My EV6 and your ID4 are not but I guess marketing controls all.
Don’t know. Crossover , SUV or whatever. Family hauler that fits the stroller and some stuff almost as good as the estate I had before. Would have preferred an estate and the id4 kinda is a higher estate with a bit of an high stance
Crossover basically refers to the gray area between car and SUV. At least the government doesn’t make you register them as trucks like PT Cruisers in 2001.
I think it has to do with the max price to qualify for the $7500 rebate. If it’s a truck or an SUV the max price is $80K to qualify. If it’s a car it’s like $55K. So I think it’s less about marketing and more about being able to charge a premium and have consumers still qualify for the subsidy.
Unless you’re doing lots of long trips, charging speed is largely irrelevant and should be pretty far down your decision making list. The vast majority of most people’s driving is around town and back and forth from work to home. Any EV, save maybe the Leaf, will suit this just fine — you’re going to be charging at home almost all the time, and will essentially leave your home each morning with a full tank of “gas.”
I’d only worry about charging times is I took a lot of long trips, and even then it wouldn’t be all that consequential to me.
But how often does this actually matter? I’m in the middle of a road trip in my i4, and out of five charging stops I was only waiting for the car once for 10 minutes. The other 4 times the car was at my target charge by the time I was ready to go. I think any if the cars above 150kW charging speed are probably fine, she probably the above 100 will by doable if you only road trip once it twice a year.
I’m not saying that Hyundai isn’t easy ahead in the charging system, I’m just saying that it probably isn’t a reason to buy the car on its own. I would choose the Ionic 5 over the id.4 for the quality (weirdly, but Hyundai is killing it and VW, bluntly, isn’t), styling, and ride quality, but the charging speed would be a bonus rather than a selling feature.
Given that used AWD ID.4 and AWD Ioniq 5 can both be purchased for around $27k for their initial 2021 models, why would I choose the 2021 ID.4 that has slower charging, slower software, and drum brakes?
Personally would love to consider the ID.4 as our next vehicle, but the gen 1 ID.4 has enough downsides that it’s at the bottom of my list.
OMG, does the VW really have drum brakes?!
Only total pieces of shit have drum brakes, so don’t tell me the VW is “nicer” than the Hyundai.
Does it also have hand-crank windows?
What year are we living in, 1993?
It has rear drum brakes because they are virtually useless since the regenerative braking is very strong. It reduces maintenance and production costs for zero performance or driving experience impact.
The front wheels have disc brakes of course.
As a ID.4 owner I couldn’t car less about the drum brakes, I’m glad I won’t have to replace 4x disc brakes that have entirely rusted out like I did with my old Volt.
I can only provide the scenario that we’re presented with this week. US Thanksgiving road trip.
We could have taken a longer (distance) route with the same ETA to use my Ioniq 5 with two stops and a EV friendly hotel, but the hotel was more expensive, less kid oriented, and didn’t include breakfast. So basically negated any cost savings even when ignoring the kid part. That then means that the two other stops to charge at EAs that will likely have a line during the holiday period are all for nothing. Even if they are both open and working, the stops would be longer since there’s no food near them and all three of us are pretty quick on just bathroom stops.
After writing this, it is less on the pure charging speed discussion, and more on the overall experience. Eh, I’ll leave it since it’s still a relevant aspect.
You are kind of making my point for me without realizing it. On road trips I don’t need to plan an activity around charging my Ioniq 5.
Depends on the road trip. It can make a significant difference for some. https://www.reddit.com/r/electricvehicles/s/Ex7JWVvV3y
It’s just that you will always be able to charge faster.
You run into a lot with only 50kw charger available? Well you will still likely pull in more than 50kw, meaning your stop is shorter.
Here’s where I think it matters most: throughput.
You can charge 3 EGMP cars (Ioniq 5, Ioniq 6, EV6, etc.) in the time it takes to charge 2 Mustang Mach-Es. Over the course of a 16 hour day from 6 AM to 10 PM, that’s 48 cars charged vs. 32. If your charging station has 4 blocks which can support those peak EGMP charge rates, then that’s 192 vs 128 cars that can be handled.
For an individual, the 5-15 minutes you can save by having the faster charging EV (vs. a fast but not quite as fast charging EV) is probably not that big a deal. Even on the longest travel days–where you could be fast charging 3 or 4 times–that’s no more than an hour of time difference, and probably less. Unless you’re on an unavoidably tight time crunch (a rare conundrum), or have impatient kids in the backseat who can’t be reasoned with because they’re just plain sick of being in car seats, that’s acceptable. But what’s not acceptable is waiting for 1 or more other cars in front of you in the queue to do their entire charge before you can even have your turn to plug in. That’s why I say throughput is where it matters, and is the real benefit of having a higher percentage of the EV fleet being super fast charging.
This throughput issue is, of course, remedied with more charging infrastructure in more places, and so it’s good that not only are charge speeds of the fleet averaging upward, but also that more stations are being built every day!
Yes, people do not realize the diminishing returns of charging speed.
Going from 50 kW to 100 kW is a huge improvement, which can save you hours on a road trip.
Another doubling, going from 100 kW to 200 kW is nice, but not really life changing.
Another doubling, going from 200 kW to 400 kW is “Okay, I saved 5 minutes, but that just means that I couldn’t finish my coffee.”.
Own a Tesla model Y here, and yah, shared gen2 super chargers kinda suck, but now it’s mostly all Gen3 I land on, and ughhh yah. I end up with more charge than I need to go home by the time I go pee and grab a drink and a snack.
I seriously imagine the people who were excited about 800v are peeing in bottles while driving 3000 miles a day.
Yea, I stopped at a 250kw supercharger yesterday. Tesla likes to route you to an older 150kw unit in this area for some reason. The 250 is newer and has way more stalls. The 150kw was also more expensive. The 150kw is closer to the route so I’m sure that’s why.
Anyway, I stopped to get some lunch before I started charging. I was ready to resume my trip before I finished my cheeseburger. Granted, I wasn’t on a super long trip so I just needed to add about 20% but it only took maybe 5 minutes.
Each doubling also means you’re more likely to be limited by the charger. Often you only have 150 kW chargers and the best charging cars can’t do any better than those with good charging.
There’s no diminishing returns; it’s a linear relationship. Double the speed is double the speed, unless you’re comparing cars with different sized battery packs. The Ioniq 5 and the id4 are similarly sized though.
Here’s an article https://www.edmunds.com/car-news/electric-car-charging.html#table. In that test the Ioniq 5 gained 100mi of range in 08 min 54 sec, and the id4 did the same in 15 min 09 sec.
OTOH, if you don’t always find an 800V 350kW charger then you may not be gaining as much.
As I understand it, if you have common lithium ion batteries, faster charging degrades your battery capacity over time. How much degradation is caused by extra fast charging vs slower, IDK. I just thought it worth mentioning.
Apparently, the latest lithium polymer batteries are not as sensitive to state-of-charge. So, you can use the full capacity, 1-100%, without concern for accelerated degradation. Whether or not the lithium polymer batteries handle fast charging better as well, IDK.
I’ve road tripped in an Ioniq 5 and Standard Range F150. Same 400+ mile trip.
You get a lot of piece of mind in knowing that the ioniq 5 is going to get you in and out quickly, even if there are issues with EA (which is like a 50/50 chance).
But that’s my point. The higher charging rate might give you some warm fuzzy feelings, but it doesn’t actually change your road trip. If I had the Ionic 5 yesterday, I would have saved at most 15 minutes in a 12 hour drive. And I am not exaggerating. I was surprised, but every time except once when I got back to my car it was ready to go.
I just ran an Ioniq 5 versus an ID.4 on a 12.5hr drive in ABRP: 1hr 57 min of charging for the Ioniq 5, 3hr 34min for the ID.4. That’s significant.
Dont even have the time anymore to take a wizz while roadtripping
Well, the fact is, the IONIQ 5 isn’t “widely more popular than the ID.4"; maybe in your area in Canada it is, but looking at the sales numbers, in the US, the IONIQ 5 sold 25,306 units, and the ID.4 edged it out, selling 27,155 units in the first three quarters of this year. Worldwide, that gap gets even larger, with Hyundai selling 59,793 IONIQ 5 units and Volkswagen selling 101,200 ID.4/5 units in the first half of this year. I can’t find specific sales data for Canada, but overall, ID.4 seems to be the more popular of the two.
I think both the IONIQ 5 and ID.4 are excellent EVs though, I prefer and bought the ID.4 over the IONIQ 5 because it has a higher quality feeling interior; I do agree that the IONIQ 5 feels too cheap for what you’re paying, the e-GMP twin EV6 is a bit better though; the ID.4 is also more comfortable, has more standard content (at least in the US) has an amazing turning circle, has a cheaper MSRP than the IONIQ 5, much better dealer network (at least around me), and qualifies for the tax credit, but the IONIQ 5 has the benefit of being on an 800V architecture and therefore has blistering charging speeds; although the ID.4 with the SK battery is no slouch either, one of the best charging 400V in it’s class, but the IONIQ 5 charges undoubtedly better; the IONIQ 5 also has more available options for example a HUD, more physical buttons, slightly more range and more unique styling (whether you like or not is up to you, I personally like it).
Personally, I don’t think you can go wrong with either.
What does HUD stand for?
I’m going be that guy and tell you HUD doesn’t stand for Heads Up Display, but rather Head-Up Display. Singular, not plural.
TBF I have never heard this, even after a decade as an engineer at Boeing. “Head-up display” may be common among human factors engineers, where the focus is on cockpit ergonomics, and maybe it was the original use at the Pentagon, but I think both should be considered correct because even in aerospace you’ll hear “heads-up” more often.
Thanks for the heads up, on that.
Counterpoint https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Head-up_display
A head-up display, or heads-up display
Also, this company called their own product a heads up display https://hudway.co/drive
Never heard anyone call it a “heads up display” until the replies in this thread. Sort of assumed everyone knew they only had one head to keep up while driving
“heads up” is an expression. It means “pay attention”, not “articulate your multiple heads”.
Heads Up Display
Heads up display (typically projects speed and other information above the dashboard so there is no need to take your eyes off the road)
Heads Up Display
I’ve never thought that anyone could talk about the Ioniq stereo as better than anything else, the id4 must be really bad because the Ioniq stereo systems (standard / bose) are known for being the most underwhelming part of the car
The ID.4 system is painfully average, until the refresh, it’s the same stereo in every trim, a 7 speaker system. I don’t know how it compares to the base IONIQ 5 system, but I know the Bose in the IONIQ 5 is better.
It must be pretty bad then because even the Bose Ioniq is one of the worst “premium” stereos I’ve seen
I just found out that the VW has drum brakes.
Are you kidding me?!
There is no way I’m stepping 30 years back in time to effin’ drum brakes.
Shame on VW for making a “luxury” vehicle with the most substandard brakes available.
Drum brakes are great for vehicles where that’s all they need. You’ll find lots of 60s and 70s cars still running their original drums long after every disc brake variant of the car has had 2 or 3 sets of calipers and discs. They hold up better in northern climates and areas where roads are salted. They can’t get rocks or debris into them on rough patches of road. They can have plenty of stopping power when coupled with regeneration and shouldn’t have heat cycling issues since they aren’t being used much if at all.
I don’t see a downside to them other than them being an older technology. Older tech isn’t always necessarily inferior.
I can’t accept going back to 60s or 70s technology for something that affects safety as well as performance.
My 2012 ICE needed a brake job at 75,000 miles and again this summer at 150,000 miles, and I’m fine with that.
Drum brakes have much less stopping power and also tend to be much more likely to lock up during emergency/evasive maneuvers. In this case, older tech is absolutely inferior.
Hell, my BICYCLES have had disc brakes since, like, forever.
(Seriously, most bikes made after 1999-2000 have disc brakes)
The ID.4 stops from 60-0 in 119 feet vs. 126 feet on a Tiguan that is lighter and has all-around disc brakes, so the drum brakes don’t really affect braking performance. I never once felt that they were insufficient in our ID.4.
Along with all the benefits u/Infinityaero listed, drum brakes create less drag, and therefore more regen can be done on the rear axle compared to an EV with rear disc brakes.
Canada new EV rebate claims database (ID4 and Ioniq 5 both qualify, so assume every new sale in Canada is captured here): https://open.canada.ca/data/en/dataset/42986a95-be23-436e-af15-7c6bf292a2e1
Summarized into a table:
Recipient Province / Territory British Columbia
Row Labels Count
Hyundai IONIQ 5 1655
Volkswagen ID.4 1840Ioniq 5 is more unique looking, whereas ID4 looks like many other VW SUV, so even within BC it’s about even, nowhere near widely more popular
On the flip side, the IONIQ 5 has the benefit of being on an 800V architecture and therefore has blistering charging speeds
800v doesn’t really buy you “blistering” charge speeds. You can get the same speeds at 400v - the input voltage doesn’t really matter when the battery cells operate at around 4v and cell temperatures are the limiting factor.
You’re comparing apples and oranges with the sales numbers. In the US the Ioniq 5 doesn’t qualify for the federal EV tax credit, but the id4 does. IIUC Canada doesn’t have the same protectionist (and kinda racist tbh) policy.
Here in Canada I see the IONIQ 5 everywhere but rarely see an ID.4. There’s at least 2 reasons I can think of when I was shopping around last year.
- For a while, VW pulled the heat pump on ID.4 delivered to Canada. Not available as an option. In Canadian winter, without heat pump the range is crap.
- VW Canada has awful financing / leasing terms on the ID.4, compared to the VW US.
ID4 isn’t that much better IMO.
But around here ID4/5 are more popular than Ioniq so
Volkswagon are reporting 170,000 units delivered in 2022 and Hyundai are reporting 88,000 units in 2022.
Volkswagon are reporting 170,000 units delivered in 2022 and Hyundai are reporting 88,000 units in 2022.
Their comments were coming from what they noticed from a Canadian perspective, in which the Ioniq 5 (4,807) outsold the ID4 in 2022 (1,822) by a large amount in 2022. However, so far in 2023 the ID4 (2,391) has been outselling the Ioniq 5 (405).
That said, both vehicles have very long waiting lists lasting years and don’t reflect true demand but just how many are being shipped to Canada.
Vancouver here. I finally got a call back from Hyundai after waiting 19 months with them. However, at 16 months I put my name in with Volkswagen and literally 2 days previous I picked up my ID.4. 3 month wait for the ID.4.
Honestly, aside from the wait, it came down to sales experience. Hyundai would have likely made a sale with me if they told me where I was in line, but all I was told was a very large dealership was getting 3 I5s total for September. VW then sent a marketing email with 12 on the lot and I signed for a short range RWD one the next day.
Love it. Charging comments here are something I thought about, but the fastest I’ve charged in these 2 months is 0.7kW and I drive over 1000km a month. It’s a car car. Nothing too flashy, comfortable, excellent turning for driving in a city and underground parking garages.
I went to replace a golf with an ID4, but hated the touchscreen interface and lack of physical buttons.
My best explanation is charging speed, making the ioniq a car for people not having a charging station at home or no house at all.
But also the styling. While I know some people not looking the retro style, most people think it’s cool. While the VW is ugly for most, and other people think it’s ugly, but they don’t care about optics
This would seem to be a trim-dependent comparison