The MDHS State Disbursement Unit is the Child Support department. Dude went nuts because he doesn’t want to pay child support. What a POS.
One of their biggest things they’re always trying to do is “discharge” theur child support.
Yeah they are. But fun fact, garnishments and liens work just as well without an INTERNATIONAL TREATY and a surprising number of these loons still work and own stuff.
Yes but they’re their own country, and the USA needs to form a treaty to have say in their business, unless they’re “travelling” or receiving welfare or benefit in some other way
The reality is that they are not bodies politic, have no demos, and every person everywhere ever is subject to the law of the jurisdiction in which they are present.
And I imagine thEy had no contract with the child in question
“I don’t have anything to do with that kid! Why should I have to pay child support?”
Unfortunately I know people like that in real life, who don’t seem to understand that the child support is largely because they want nothing to do with their kid
What if before birth they prove that they wanted the child aborted?
If they are forced to be pregnant with it, that’s their choice.
Have you ever spent nine months with a pregnant woman? They don’t do it because it’s fun.
That’s not how it works.
Of course not, I’m asking if that’s how it should work?
No, it should not. When two consenting adults have sex without protection, the resulting pregnancy shouldn’t be the sole problem of the woman.
She is the only one granted the choice to end the responsibility. The father is left with massive financial responsibility for 18 years, that the mother had the choice to prevent. This even occurs in cases of rape.
Child support isn’t meant to punish a parent that’s no longer in the child’s life. Even if thats the end result, it’s meant to support the child.
Because of the bodily autonomy argument there won’t be true equality surrounding pregnancy because nobody has (or should have) weight of decision of whether to carry the child except for the person who does so.
But if a child is brought into the world as a result, it needs to be supported. And that’s the responsibility of the parents- willing or not.
I think that if male birth control becomes safe and available it will be much closer to equality.
Your logic is fundamentally flawed. In several ways. I see several people arguing with you ineffectively because they assume you are arguing in good faith or have a coherent position… Neither of which I am convinced you possess.
In the US (and most of the world) it is a fundamental right of bodily autonomy that any individual is not subjected to any forced medical situation in the support of another person’s life, regardless of that person’s age, gender or relationship with the other person. Even if we agreed on when personhood happens (I assume we disagree on it) at no point must one person give up their bodily rights for another. If you provide a special case for pregnancy then we are in a discussion of if your inconsistent belief structure is valid.
Your logic is fundamentally flawed. In several ways. I see several people arguing with you ineffectively because they assume you are arguing in good faith or have a coherent position…
You’re free to disagree with me, but everything I say on here is in good faith.
In the US (and most of the world) it is a fundamental right of bodily autonomy that any individual is not subjected to any forced medical situation in the support of another person’s life, regardless of that person’s age, gender or relationship with the other person.
Yep, I agree.
Even if we agreed on when personhood happens (I assume we disagree on it) at no point must one person give up their bodily rights for another.
I have no strong opinion on when personhood happens, I simply don’t know.
If you provide a special case for pregnancy then we are in a discussion of if your inconsistent belief structure is valid.
A special case for what? You never expressed your disagreement with me.
If they were going to want the baby aborted, they shouldn’t have had sex without a condom. You don’t get to cum inside someone and then tell them what to do with it. Your jizz, your problem.
My parents were using a condom lmao. They’re not perfect.
So, do you oppose abortion in general?
Obviously not. They’re saying that the person that gets pregnant gets to decide whether or not they want to abort. It’s not the decision of the sperm donor.
So, a mother has a choice to opt out of paying for a child if they can’t afford it. But a father is given the same choice.
What a person does with their own body is entirely up to them. If you play your part in making that baby, and the person you came inside of plays their part too, you both have to pay for it. The sperm donor has one opportunity to opt out of being a parent, and that one opportunity is when they’re having sex.
What a person does with their own body is entirely up to them.
Yes, but when one person has the choice to not have a child, the other person can express their desire to not raise the child.
If you play your part in making that baby, and the person you came inside of plays their part too, you both have to pay for it.
Why?
The sperm donor has one opportunity to opt out of being a parent, and that one opportunity is when they’re having sex.
Why?
I only agreed to get my dick wet, your child support contract is invalid
“I DO NOT HAVE AN INTERNATIONAL TREATY WITH YOU” is about to be my go to line to get out of uncomfortable situations.
I still like, “YOU’RE NOT MY SUPERVISOR”
“THIS IS NOT MY BEAUTIFUL WIFE”
“THAT’S MY PURSE”
“I DON’T KNOW YOU”
“I think you will find that I do not have testicles.”
“SHE BLUFFING! FINISH HER!”
A lovely chinese dinner, you say?
Succulent.
True. True.
I’ll leave it up to own my shame.
No worries, but I just could not let it lie there! ;)
My God what have I done
I love this assertion by them. Because it’s them saying they are an independent nation. But they are living on or within the US’s declared borders and do not have a treaty as the American Indians do. Therefore they’d qualify as invaders or secessionist and the US military/immigration authorities should have jurisdiction to prosecute them. Afterall, this Sovereign Citizen is currently abroad in another country.
Telling my boss this next time I’m voluntold to fix another failing project.
You have to say it ALL CAPS and in RED INK. LoL
It’s a pretty weird claim. They think they are their own country? Okay then… Do they realize that foreign countries can be taken to war against their wishes? I hope so, because that’s probably going to happen to a lot of these people.
I DO NOT KNOW WHO YOU ARE
I DO NOT UNDERSTAND YOUR INTENT
Bullshit. You know that mail is regarding the child support payments you’re trying to weasel your way out of.
They are always asking how to “discharge” child support on the sovcit groups.
Is there no counter narrative of unsatisfied customers who chime in on every post to say “I tried this nonsense in family court and the judge took my kids gave my ex sole custody!”
No, those users are banned from the forums.
Hard to get Internet access in prison
One of those was a census. How tiny is their world if they don’t know what a census is, and who sends them?
What is census? And who’s sending it?
(asks non usa-an)
If your serious, it’s something we do every few years to see how many people live in the US (like how many people live at your house), what race and gender you all are, income and that sort of thing. Basically it just gives the government a general idea of how many people live in the US, whether or not they are citizens and other social and economic shit. You fill them out anonymously and it only effects general population reports and stuff, it doesn’t really effect you personally. It’s pretty much only used for statistical purposes.
I think the MDHS one is Mississippi child support and this “sovereign citizen” is a deadbeat parent (surprise).
Thank You for explanation
Out of curiosity, does your country not have a census? I would have guessed every country does to have accurate information about their populace.
In my hellscape there are three sources of information about who lives in country
- Registration in police
- They also issue internal pasports
- I think foreigners register there too
- Their registration is used by election committees
- Registration is based on place where you live(permanent for your home and temproary for stuff like hotel, camping site, prison…)
- Civil registration?
- They give birth and death certificates
- They also keep track of citizenship
- And marriages
- Census
- They knock on doors and write whatever what said by people
- They ask foreigners only 7 questions and 33 questions for citizens
- If you say you are unicorn mare from Equestria they will write that here lives unicorn mare from Equestria
- It is used to get factual information about what people live here
- They don’t ask pasports or any other document
Participating in census is not mandatory here. If you make census mandatory it will probably be no better than existing beaurocracy and defeats purpose of getting on-ground truth.
Sorry, yes it has every 10 years, it’s just english is not my native langusge and I never used(heard/saw) census so I was confused.
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No that was digitalized like twenty years ago.
How? Is it China? I can’t imagine real digitalized census without China level of surveillance.
I, uh, happen to be an expert in censuses.
The US of course tries to get everyone to respond, and sends people out to follow up with people who don’t respond, such as this sovereign citizen in the original post. (The picture is of the 2020 Census envelope and as such is ~4 years old, by the way.)
Some European countries do an administrative records census, wherein they know who is in the country based on passport control, birth and death records, and so on. These censuses have the (admitted) flaw that someone who is in the country illegally would almost certainly not be counted, but on the flip side they are MUCH cheaper and faster than the US-style census. It’s basically just running an SQL query on the database.
Other countries do a mix of the two. Even the US uses administrative records sometimes, if good data is available, and they can’t get a response another way.
The US’s situation is more complex than many countries, because driver’s licenses (which serve as IDs) are issued by the individual states, not the federal government, and relatively few Americans ever get a passport. So, the closest things to a “master list” of people in the US that the government has are things like IRS and Social Security records - but those have flaws, too - for example, they don’t count legal visitors.
I do not know what China et al do to complete their censuses.
Copy-pasta from my another comment:
In my hellscape there are three main sources of information about who lives in country
- Registration in police
- They also issue internal pasports
- I think foreigners register there too
- Their registration is used by election committees
- Registration is based on place where you live(permanent for your home and temproary for stuff like hotel, camping site, prison…)
- Civil registration?
- They give birth and death certificates
- They also keep track of citizenship
- And marriages
- Census
- They knock on doors and write whatever what said by people
- They ask foreigners only 7 questions and 33 questions for citizens
- If you say you are unicorn mare from Equestria they will write that here lives unicorn mare from Equestria
- It is used to get factual information about what people live here
- They don’t ask pasports or any other document
Participating in census is not mandatory here. If you make census mandatory it will probably be no better than existing beaurocracy and defeats purpose of getting on-ground truth.
I do not know what China et al do to complete their censuses.
I mean for govt to know how much each ring of hell is polulated and who in fact lives there instead of just registered needs either to knock on the door or spy on everyone. Not that I know what China does for their censuses.
The best thing about sovereign citizens is they’re the only ones not in on the joke.
And they so persistently do not understand why their BS doesn’t work.
Honestly their BS does kind of work they just seem unable to grasp that all the things they’re saying also apply to everyone else. They don’t have to aknowledge their electricity providers authority to charge them for electricity and the electric company doesn’t have to keep supplying it. Its like some kind of extreme narcisicm.
'Cept in most locales you have to maintain your home’s “habitability status” to not get it condemned, which requires having a functional electrical supply. And usually also working plumbing, heat, some manner of cooking apparatus, and a refrigerator.
“Muh Freedumb!” aside, these types of code requirements were as I understand it at least initially put into place to prevent slumlords from charging rent for an “apartment” that has access to none of the above.
Anyhow, if you really don’t want to pay electric bills it’s really not too tough to get yourself some solar panels or something. Somehow that never occurs to these people. There are counties out in the boondocks where you are permitted by law to live fully off the grid if you feel like it, so maybe they ought to move there and quit bothering everybody with their nonsense.
I think water and sewage are required but I don’t think electricity is because a property is technically habitable without power. As long as there is not a vulnerable person confirmed living at the address. I mean it all seems a bit arbitrary, but apparently those are the rules.
I think it’s mostly about making it unpleasant for squatters without violating their human rights too much. It straddles the line but not too badly.
This is another one of them there varies by state/county/city things. Where I live you must be connected to the grid. This causes problems for people who don’t want to be connected to the grid, i.e. they have more than enough solar or windmill and battery capacity to not require it from a functional standpoint. But the county forbids you from not paying the local electricity monopoly their monthly bribe.
This is relatively recent – as of the last 4 or 5 years or so. The power company now helpfully charges a “connection fee” if you use 0 kWh, which started happening exactly at the same time the law was passed to make it illegal not to be connected to them. I can’t help but conclude that these two facts are not coincidental.
My previous area was like that, and that was why I didn’t bother getting a battery system for my solar. And the connection fee went up, and up, and up.
i’M tRaVeLlInG!
The appeal is there. Imagine not having to pay any taxes or any of your bills. The idea practically sells itself to anyone who has no civics education.
> Refuses to open letter
> I DO NOT UNDERSTAND YOUR INTENT
Ok, buddy.
If they don’t open it they can’t have read it and therefore aren’t bound by what’s in it. <- sovcit logic
I mean, that does work. Unless the letter is sent certified mail, it’s not guaranteed to arrive. It could be lost on the way so they can’t prove you got it.
Of course if you write all over it and post it online then you clearly got it.
By and large, I think most of these people are just trying to get out of legal and financial obligations. I bet if a government agency sent them a check, they’d fucking cash it. But it’s when they’re required to pay money or complete the littlest forms that they balk. They are just bad scammers.
They probably vote too.
“Not a US citizen”
Okay, so GTFO if you’re renouncing your citizenship. And don’t use any public roads or services as you’re leaving…
Just deport them, and since they have nowhere to go, I guess that means throw them in the ocean?
Or make a treaty with an interested nation to deport them to.
I’m guessing Russia and North Korea would be interested.Russia
No. Idiots are on the other side of bath tub formerly known as ocean.
To Mexico, it would be funny so see their faces. /s
doesn’t US charge you for giving up your citizenship too?
Yup, its an old Civil War era law for folks who tried to avoid dying in the Civil War by moving to Canada. Reasoning was, if you wanted to draft dodge you could support the war financially instead. Then during the early 2000s as folks who graduated college at the wrong time and ended up more college debt than they can ever pay off started moving abroad to escape it, they increased the fee and took other steps to make renouncing more difficult since expats were renouncing their citizenship to stop owing taxes in the US
ended up more college debt than they can ever pay off started moving abroad to escape it, they increased the fee
Short version: USA wanted slaves
to stop owing taxes in the US
I’m not a lawyer and I’m not from US, but I’m pretty sure this is not how it works.
I’m not a lawyer and I’m not from US, but I’m pretty sure this is not how it works.
Ah but it is. The US is, as far as I know, the only country who taxes its citizens who are living abroad. And yes, it is as stupid and shitty as it sounds.
No, I mean stopping owing part. If you did not pay taxes but should have while you were citizen, you are still owe taxes.
It seems US is most backwards country. Well, it could be most upside-down country, but this title is already claimed by Australia.
Perhaps I could have worded it better. I meant not accruing additional taxes to pay. But if you’re already debt dodging by changing countries, realistically what is the federal government gonna do?
Yeah it’s something like $2600
If these people are not citizens of any country, they’d have to be deported to International Waters for not holding a visa right?
I know you’re just making a joke but statelessness is actually a huge headache for both the individual and Governments in dealing with them.
https://www.unhcr.org/about-unhcr/who-we-protect/stateless-people
Well the ocean doesn’t discriminate.
Stateless people (not this whacko) are often stateless through no fault of their own. Shifting borders, oversight in government policy, or legal discrimination have deprived them of the rights and privileges they are entitled to.
Pretty much wherever they go, they have a hard time getting ID, enrolling in school, finding legal housing or work, etc.
About 100K Armenians were just made stateless and kicked out of Azerbaijan recently. You didn’t hear about it because of Israel and no one cares about Azerbaijan.
These were people who predated the Soviet Union, became part of the Soviet Union, outlasted the Soviet Union, and then wanted their own country. They were living on land claimed by Azerbaijan but they understandably thought “That’s a made up country. They just made it up. We can make up our own country.”
Unfortunately, “living somewhere for a hundred years” doesn’t count for much today. So Azeris kicked them out of their homes and they had to leave to Armenia. Azerbaijan is now eyeing Armenian territory and these people have to apply for Armenian citizenship, through no real fault of their own.
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Just to to a fucking airport, god.
What?
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0362227/
Based on a true story for the most part. I honestly can’t remember how much they changed. It’s been a long time since I read about the real story.
Very changed. And, worse, whitewashed. The original man was Iranian. The was a French film made about the situation too. A white man played him in that movie as well. Plus, it was a comedy.
Why do they always have the same handwriting?
It’s the lead poisoning.
There’s a certain level of brain malfunction necessary to think this shit will work, and one way that can manifest is poor coordination for fine movements like writing.
Actually a really valid point
Pills/ computer duster, I assume
Middle school dropouts
Were you taught handwriting in highschool?
Nope, I Do remember a few middle school dropouts though and how incredibly dumb they were. I assume they weren’t allowed to drop out in elementary. Idk, thirty years ago.
Handwriting doesn’t really correlate with intelligence
Dropping out in middle school does
Idk about that, given I don’t think in most of the US you can drop out until at least 16.
Like I said, 30 years ago. Not sure who or what it is you’re advocating for here
I think this person will find that they are very much a citizen of the United States of America.
I still think we should just take them at their word and deport them.
Have them go through customs every time they leave their property to get groceries. Get yourself a conscientious officer who makes sure he doesn’t have enough hours in a day to fetch something he forgot on his first run. Btw, tough luck with your utilities, I assume it’s quite a lot of paperwork for international piping and electrical connections, especially if your utilities company is motivated not losing 100$ a month.
To Somalia.
Hey Somalia’s been doing better lately. Maybe Yemen?
Real “Virgin Sovereign Citizen” / “Chad Houthi Rebel” moment coming up.
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We could dump them all on the Principality of Sealand.
Send them into international waters
Antarctica, I guess?
What can anyone do there? Install penguins on computers?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territorial_claims_in_Antarctica
Pretty sure the unclaimed chunk is big enough to hold most of them
Middle of the ocean where they belong
Doesn’t matter. Whatever group it’s cheapest to throw them in with.
Give em what they want and put em on a boat onto international waters and they can build waterworld, or not. Better than indulging their make-believe and causing everyone else a headache.
That doesn’t solve the problem if they get in trouble somewhere else. Also they’d be bothering future Americans wherever we send them
Not if we deport them to, say, the moon.
That’s still America. Source: 🇱🇷 was there first
Oh yeah, the old star and stripes.
Only thing worse than citizenship is statelessness.
You think the government is fucking you over now? Wait till you’re denied legal residency practically anywhere on earth and your very existence is considered a criminal trespass.
Stay in airport limbo forever
And you’re not even Tom Hanks.
Is this the kind of people who post disclaimers in social media that “unauthorize” the company running said social media from using the “content” they post there?
Or add a cc license to their Lemmy posts
That shit made me cackle when I saw it
What’s wrong with that?
CC BY-NC-ND 4.0
Yup
That motherfucker must feel so powerful writing that… stuff.
I mean the only other kick he’s going to get is to the teeth by the feds, so I hope he’s getting something out of it.
Should these “sovereign citizens” be arrested and put in illegal migrant camps the minute they set foot on public roads, or should we reserve that VIP treatment only for brown Spanish-speaking people?
Yes they should and Brown Spanish speakers should get to detain them.
…could they be driving tuk tuks?
Sovereign citizens are some of the stupidest dregs of society. It doesn’t even take proper legal training to realize how wrong and how stupid their statements are when they do this kind of garbage.
It requires such a weird pick and choose approach to the law to make these arguments and it just baffles me. Like who do they even expect to back them?
“Not a U.S. citizen”
Throw this ass clown out into international waters like they’re DJ Jazzy Jeff overstaying his welcome
