What’s up with these low quality clickbait articles that twist facts and mislead readers? Fortune, Forbes, Business Insider etc have been churning them out nonstop for this past month.
The problem isn’t that EV sales have stopped, but that growth is slowing faster than forecast. For an market segment with some pretty stiff regulations and govt mandated goals coming in the very near future, this is worrying.
Some relevant quotes:
… this week on GM’s third-quarter earnings call, Barra and GM struck a more sober tone. The company announced with its quarterly results that it’s abandoning its targets to build 100,000 EVs in the second half of this year and another 400,000 by the first six months of 2024. GM doesn’t know when it will hit those targets.
“This is a pretty brutal space,” CFO Harald Wilhelm said on an analyst call. “I can hardly imagine the current status quo is fully sustainable for everybody.”
… inventory builds up at dealerships, much to the chagrin of dealers. While car buyers are in luck if they’re looking for a deal on a plug-in vehicle, executives are finding even significant markdowns and discounts aren’t enough.
They might as well not have. It’s such an embarrassingly bad vehicle that it does nothing for their bottom-line, while costing them in brand reputation.
Because they are holding out for better battery tech. Ssd battery that can have range of 700+ miles with 10-30min charge. Toyota doesnt fall into “latest is greatest” bullshit. They adopt well researched and refined tech only.
Lol this is like the guy the other day who’s post said “The Real Cost of Ev is $17/gallon” or some dumbass shit from some Texas study. I pointed out the “study” was done by the following organization:
“Projects of the organization include Right on Crime, which is focused on criminal justice reform,[4] and Fueling Freedom, which seeks to “explain the forgotten moral case for fossil fuels”[5] by rejecting the scientific consensus on climate change.[6]”
“Donors to the organization include energy companies Chevron, ExxonMobil, and other fossil fuel interests.”
People are talking shit on EVs non stop. The amount of times I’ve seen people call Teslas and other EVS shitboxes (there’s a guy like 3 comments down saying this) that break non stop and cant even hit 100k miles, or think they burn a house down or catch fire while driving, or they think they only get 180 miles and have to charge for 45 mins before going another 180 is insane. The amount of misinformation is crazy.
Btw, the mods left that article up and just attached the “misleading” tag to it, so you can see where they stand. Mods shouldn’t be letting bullshit “studies” about EVS be posted from a group like the above, but instead they left it up so double digit iq idiots can point to it as another reason to avoid EVS while quoting that article.
Reminds me of the German study stating EVs produce way more CO2 than petrol cars using the Hypothese "every kWh used comes from coal plants and cars are produced using coal energy while petrol cars are built using clean energy and petrol transportation as well as refinement were not considered.
I kind of agree with the mods leaving it up. We should definitely be able to see what shitty journalism is being put out there, so that we can identify bad actors not give credibility to them. People that don’t look at the flair AND don’t read the articles are going to be misinformed regardless.
My understanding is that overall demand hasn’t slowed but the market is well saturated now so demand for specific automakers appears to be slowing. For example, the Mach E will be lucky to top last year’s sales which is very distressing for Ford when sales are expected to be significantly climbing.
It’s mostly because no one can handle ford’s dealership bullshit. I went with Tesla because I can’t stand those assholes trying to scam you for an hour before offering you an ok deal while acting like they’re a gift from god. That’s how it was last time I went in there
It’s hard, a lot of the studies and stats around EVs not selling well and piling up on dealer lots is because Tesla continues to eat everyone’s lunch. They don’t have dealer lots so they’re conveniently not included when articles state that EV inventory is ridiculously high, and as long as they remain a significantly better value than anything the OEMs are putting out things will remain that way (slow EV growth by legacies, piling up on lots).
Yep more competition in the space is absolutely good, but is also starting to highlight some of the shitty practices by dealers. Lots of Ford dealers putting markups on Mach-E’s and Lightnings, then Ford is struggling to sell their EVs… doesn’t take a genius to figure that one out.
That and they also have the most compelling vehicles for the money and by far the best charging network. A model 3 or Y seems like a great value compared to the competition at its price point.
There’s a reason EV prices are falling off a cliff.
Anecdotally they’re probably talking about Ford eating a bunch of shit and cutting a billion or two from previous economic forecasts chalked up to EVs. This type of data wouldn’t be published collectively as it would have a severe chilling effect on certain auto manufactures equities.
But if you’re inclined to, pull MB, BMW, VAG, and Ford commentaries from their last few quarterly investor relations calls and you should see a pattern. Bullish in 19-22, neutral in 22-early 23, negative neutral in mid 23.
Reuters is ok for people who want free financial news. I wish people just linked to the Reuters article more than the equivalent click bait article on other sites. Bloomberg is nearly on FT tier too and is 10 bucks a month.
The article has Toyota in the title, we should look no further than this is FUD. I even saw an article posted on wsb about Toyota bringing solid state cars. Outside of the weekly 1-2 articles already posted on here and electricvehicles that one really made it clear how much they are trying to make people hold off on buying an EV because “better is right around the corner”.
I really cannot find any data whatsoever that suggests EV demand is slowing down
This horse has been beaten to the bone. YoY growth is still positive, but it is rapidly dropping off as 2022 had 65% YoY growth and 2021 had 89%. That’s not what you want to see when EV’s are only holding a single digit market share and just barely broke 1 million vehicles sold.
Combined with the fact that they are piling up at dealers, it tells you that supply has totally outpaced demand. We can’t hit 100% EV sales by 203X if it’s only growing 50% YoY at 7% market share with a downwards growth trend. Meanwhile, Toyota is hitting record profits partly with increased Hybrid sales (https://www.carscoops.com/2023/11/toyota-sales-profits-and-production-hit-record-levels/).
All this really means is that things are slow for whatever reason, and you probably shouldn’t pay a markup for an EV. The manufacturers are postponing production expansion until it makes sense.
Yet I’m here arguing the same thing for the Nth time.
It is absolutely expected for the growth to slow down over time, that is true for any new products past the very early adopter phase.
And even discard math, we are just now normalizing from the crazy 2021-2022 market into a more normal market with much higher interest rate. The overall EV growth still far out paces overall market growth, and outpaces hybrid growth.
Meanwhile, Toyota is hitting record profits partly with increased Hybrid sales
From your article, Toyota’s hybrids sale increased by 27%, which is far less than the market growth for EVs. And btw a lot of their increased profit was from them reporting lower cost due to Yen’s value crashing over the past year.
It didn’t seem like any manufacturers really anticipated it to slow down. I expected EV’s to rocket to maybe 20% market share before slowing, but that’s also why I question if this is a real downturn or just a temporary dip.
As for Hybrids, I think it’s notable because of how many get sold. Crunching the math in the article, Toyota alone sold about 1.5 Million hybrids, but that shouldn’t be a big surprise. I think the real takeaway here is that manufacturers should be making some hybrids rather than allocating so many batteries to half-baked or overpriced EVs. Making an EV just to say you have an EV is probably not worth it at this point.
I expect that the EV market share will pop when somebody releases something exciting.
I just dont care about all of these stupid crossovers. The model 3 is the only EV that I would actually consider buying and it is pretty tired at this point
It’s becoming a meme, but I think solid state batteries are the hold up when it comes to fun EV’s. The current battery tech is just too weak and too heavy.
What surprises me is the lack of hybrid sports cars. We an EV Mustang thing and the regular Mustang but no Hybrid option. It all just seems odd to me when supercar manufacturers are very much embracing Hybrids to make fast cars.
The point is that a much higher growth rate is needed to support the investments that automakers have made in EVs. Whether the growth rate is higher or lower than the figure for hybrids is not relevant. The rate of EV adoption has slowed below what analysts were projecting and the rate for hybrids has done the opposite.
I was walking down the street the other day, seething with rage over Elon Musk, as always. I couldn’t contain my facial twitches and mutterings to myself when I happened upon a young woman who asked me if something was wrong.
I began the way I started every conversation, “Oh, Elon Musk, you say? Fuck him! Fuck that motherfucker.”
“…who?”
I continued on, the way a Redditor like me always does. “Did you know his father owned an emerald mine? Or that he wasn’t even one of the original founders of one of the companies he now runs? Outrageous.” The very idea that someone could lead a company to greater success than the people who created it nearly made me shit my pants in sheer fury.
She kept her eyes on me while her head drew back. ”Oh, uh, yeah. I get a little bit jealous, too, when one of my friends does well for themselves.”
“Oh, I never met the guy. I just post on the Internet every day about how angry he makes me. The way he forces me to read everything he posts on Twitter…it’s intolerable. I wish our benevolent car dealerships and oil companies would squash him like a bug already.”
“Riiiight.” She stepped away slowly at first before taking off into a sprint. That Felon Muskrat. His cult had gotten to another innocent person with their brainwashing and propaganda.
The Internet was really going to hear about it today.
Technically slowing demand increase, I guess, which is close enough to “slowing demand” for the author of these articles not to have to feel grimy for being clickbait. (Although they should.)
If growth is less YoY per quarter then growth is slowing.
EVs are better in every way except convenience. The last time I needed to charge my Polestar, I had to wait an hour because there was only one charger in the whole town. In NYC, I have to drive to the one or two EV fast charging stations in Brooklyn which takes at least 20 minutes in traffic and then another hour waiting to get it full.
Fortunately we’re adding a fast charger to the house but it’s way way more convenient to simply spend 5 minutes filling up at a gas station. And electric cars are expensive and they really don’t give you very much for the money. Especially if you don’t care about software. I can understand why people are holding out for as long as possible.
The sheer amount of EV’s sitting in lots now… and the ability to go on cars.com and find thousands of em… back in late 2021 to early 2022, I tried searching for EV’s to buy on cars.com and couldn’t find SHIT. Now in 2023, there’s a fuckton of EV’s for sale. And I tell you, I was on cars.com every single day looking for a Bolt to buy in early 2022. I would’ve sprung for an EV if I waited, but I needed a car right away.
Hybrids? Much harder to find, especially Toyota hybrids. My local dealers are constantly trying to get more Priuses and Corolla Hybrids in stock, and Rav4 Primes are basically impossible to find, even used. I can go on cars.com and find 100 used Model Y’s in my area, heck even on Facebook. No one is selling their hybrids on Facebook or any site.
Yeah, there has been blatant EV misinformation on this sub and in the media in general. EV sales are only growing. Not slowing. It’s a careful misrepresentation of percentages that makes it look like EV growth is falling. Look at every major auto manufactures sales reports and EV sales are outperforming expectations nearly across the board.
Talking percentages is kind of misleading with EV’s since the number of cars sold is much smaller compared to ICE (for obvious reasons). A 50% Q3 increase in EV sales is about 100K vehicles. I’m having trouble finding ICE only data, but all vehicle sales in Q3 23 had a 15% increase over Q3 22 which is about 600K cars. It’s not exactly an apples to apples comparison.
The reason people say EV sales are slowing is because the growth is not as high as it was, even though it’s still growth. EV’s often sit on dealer lots longer than their ICE counterparts currently. Check out the Cox data on this from Q2 and Q3.
And I’m not arguing EV vs ICE because they both have their place. I’m strictly talking about the numbers.
And from Toyota. Instead of actually investing money into making BEVs, they are investing all their resources in churning out headlines about their breakthrough battery tech (coming soon!) and other fud.
Look I think I’m on your side but I swear I hear way more complaining about stick shift supremacists than actual stick shift supremacist nonsense. Quite possibly the dumbest lasting schism in the automotive community.
I really cannot find any data whatsoever that suggests EV demand is slowing down, as it just reached a sales record in the most recent quarter with a 49.8% growth YoY: https://caredge.com/guides/electric-vehicle-market-share-and-sales#Q3_2023_Electric_Vehicle_Market_Share_and_Sales_US
What’s up with these low quality clickbait articles that twist facts and mislead readers? Fortune, Forbes, Business Insider etc have been churning them out nonstop for this past month.
The auto manufacturers themselves are saying EV sales are slowing down:
https://www.businessinsider.com/auto-executives-coming-clean-evs-arent-working-2023-10
The problem isn’t that EV sales have stopped, but that growth is slowing faster than forecast. For an market segment with some pretty stiff regulations and govt mandated goals coming in the very near future, this is worrying.
Some relevant quotes:
… this week on GM’s third-quarter earnings call, Barra and GM struck a more sober tone. The company announced with its quarterly results that it’s abandoning its targets to build 100,000 EVs in the second half of this year and another 400,000 by the first six months of 2024. GM doesn’t know when it will hit those targets.
“This is a pretty brutal space,” CFO Harald Wilhelm said on an analyst call. “I can hardly imagine the current status quo is fully sustainable for everybody.”
… inventory builds up at dealerships, much to the chagrin of dealers. While car buyers are in luck if they’re looking for a deal on a plug-in vehicle, executives are finding even significant markdowns and discounts aren’t enough.
Toyota thinks EV demand is low because demand for Toyota’s shitty EVs is low.
Toyota has EV?
They might as well not have. It’s such an embarrassingly bad vehicle that it does nothing for their bottom-line, while costing them in brand reputation.
Because they are holding out for better battery tech. Ssd battery that can have range of 700+ miles with 10-30min charge. Toyota doesnt fall into “latest is greatest” bullshit. They adopt well researched and refined tech only.
In 2012 Toyota claimed their solid-state batteries were coming in 2017.
In 2017 they claimed they were coming in 2020.
In 2020 they claimed they were coming in 2023.
In 2023 they claimed they were coming in 2027.
I wonder what will happen in 2027?
Toyota just announced that in 2030 they will have enough solid state batteries for about 10,000 cars.
It’s just not a serious plan.
Like hydrogen?
Lol this is like the guy the other day who’s post said “The Real Cost of Ev is $17/gallon” or some dumbass shit from some Texas study. I pointed out the “study” was done by the following organization:
Report is by the Texas Public Policy Foundation
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_Public_Policy_Foundation
“Projects of the organization include Right on Crime, which is focused on criminal justice reform,[4] and Fueling Freedom, which seeks to “explain the forgotten moral case for fossil fuels”[5] by rejecting the scientific consensus on climate change.[6]”
“Donors to the organization include energy companies Chevron, ExxonMobil, and other fossil fuel interests.”
People are talking shit on EVs non stop. The amount of times I’ve seen people call Teslas and other EVS shitboxes (there’s a guy like 3 comments down saying this) that break non stop and cant even hit 100k miles, or think they burn a house down or catch fire while driving, or they think they only get 180 miles and have to charge for 45 mins before going another 180 is insane. The amount of misinformation is crazy.
Btw, the mods left that article up and just attached the “misleading” tag to it, so you can see where they stand. Mods shouldn’t be letting bullshit “studies” about EVS be posted from a group like the above, but instead they left it up so double digit iq idiots can point to it as another reason to avoid EVS while quoting that article.
The mods in here are brutal. 6 million users and there’s only 5 new posts a day
Reminds me of the German study stating EVs produce way more CO2 than petrol cars using the Hypothese "every kWh used comes from coal plants and cars are produced using coal energy while petrol cars are built using clean energy and petrol transportation as well as refinement were not considered.
I kind of agree with the mods leaving it up. We should definitely be able to see what shitty journalism is being put out there, so that we can identify bad actors not give credibility to them. People that don’t look at the flair AND don’t read the articles are going to be misinformed regardless.
My understanding is that overall demand hasn’t slowed but the market is well saturated now so demand for specific automakers appears to be slowing. For example, the Mach E will be lucky to top last year’s sales which is very distressing for Ford when sales are expected to be significantly climbing.
It’s mostly because no one can handle ford’s dealership bullshit. I went with Tesla because I can’t stand those assholes trying to scam you for an hour before offering you an ok deal while acting like they’re a gift from god. That’s how it was last time I went in there
It’s hard, a lot of the studies and stats around EVs not selling well and piling up on dealer lots is because Tesla continues to eat everyone’s lunch. They don’t have dealer lots so they’re conveniently not included when articles state that EV inventory is ridiculously high, and as long as they remain a significantly better value than anything the OEMs are putting out things will remain that way (slow EV growth by legacies, piling up on lots).
Recall that the market is saturated with Ev crossovers.
Yes it’s the biggest market, but there’s literally a dozen options now. Obviously sales will be split.
Yep more competition in the space is absolutely good, but is also starting to highlight some of the shitty practices by dealers. Lots of Ford dealers putting markups on Mach-E’s and Lightnings, then Ford is struggling to sell their EVs… doesn’t take a genius to figure that one out.
That and they also have the most compelling vehicles for the money and by far the best charging network. A model 3 or Y seems like a great value compared to the competition at its price point.
There’s a reason EV prices are falling off a cliff.
Anecdotally they’re probably talking about Ford eating a bunch of shit and cutting a billion or two from previous economic forecasts chalked up to EVs. This type of data wouldn’t be published collectively as it would have a severe chilling effect on certain auto manufactures equities.
But if you’re inclined to, pull MB, BMW, VAG, and Ford commentaries from their last few quarterly investor relations calls and you should see a pattern. Bullish in 19-22, neutral in 22-early 23, negative neutral in mid 23.
Forbes is no longer Forbes and hasn’t been for a while.
Financial Times is the best mainstream physical publication news. The rest are clickbait versions of themselves.
Reuters is ok for people who want free financial news. I wish people just linked to the Reuters article more than the equivalent click bait article on other sites. Bloomberg is nearly on FT tier too and is 10 bucks a month.
Since when?
The article has Toyota in the title, we should look no further than this is FUD. I even saw an article posted on wsb about Toyota bringing solid state cars. Outside of the weekly 1-2 articles already posted on here and electricvehicles that one really made it clear how much they are trying to make people hold off on buying an EV because “better is right around the corner”.
This horse has been beaten to the bone. YoY growth is still positive, but it is rapidly dropping off as 2022 had 65% YoY growth and 2021 had 89%. That’s not what you want to see when EV’s are only holding a single digit market share and just barely broke 1 million vehicles sold.
Combined with the fact that they are piling up at dealers, it tells you that supply has totally outpaced demand. We can’t hit 100% EV sales by 203X if it’s only growing 50% YoY at 7% market share with a downwards growth trend. Meanwhile, Toyota is hitting record profits partly with increased Hybrid sales (https://www.carscoops.com/2023/11/toyota-sales-profits-and-production-hit-record-levels/).
All this really means is that things are slow for whatever reason, and you probably shouldn’t pay a markup for an EV. The manufacturers are postponing production expansion until it makes sense.
Yet I’m here arguing the same thing for the Nth time.
It is absolutely expected for the growth to slow down over time, that is true for any new products past the very early adopter phase.
And even discard math, we are just now normalizing from the crazy 2021-2022 market into a more normal market with much higher interest rate. The overall EV growth still far out paces overall market growth, and outpaces hybrid growth.
From your article, Toyota’s hybrids sale increased by 27%, which is far less than the market growth for EVs. And btw a lot of their increased profit was from them reporting lower cost due to Yen’s value crashing over the past year.
It didn’t seem like any manufacturers really anticipated it to slow down. I expected EV’s to rocket to maybe 20% market share before slowing, but that’s also why I question if this is a real downturn or just a temporary dip.
As for Hybrids, I think it’s notable because of how many get sold. Crunching the math in the article, Toyota alone sold about 1.5 Million hybrids, but that shouldn’t be a big surprise. I think the real takeaway here is that manufacturers should be making some hybrids rather than allocating so many batteries to half-baked or overpriced EVs. Making an EV just to say you have an EV is probably not worth it at this point.
I expect that the EV market share will pop when somebody releases something exciting. I just dont care about all of these stupid crossovers. The model 3 is the only EV that I would actually consider buying and it is pretty tired at this point
It’s becoming a meme, but I think solid state batteries are the hold up when it comes to fun EV’s. The current battery tech is just too weak and too heavy.
What surprises me is the lack of hybrid sports cars. We an EV Mustang thing and the regular Mustang but no Hybrid option. It all just seems odd to me when supercar manufacturers are very much embracing Hybrids to make fast cars.
The point is that a much higher growth rate is needed to support the investments that automakers have made in EVs. Whether the growth rate is higher or lower than the figure for hybrids is not relevant. The rate of EV adoption has slowed below what analysts were projecting and the rate for hybrids has done the opposite.
Elon musk hater probably
Do this much digging into every headline (even the ones you agree with) and you may be surprised what you find.
Dissing Elon Musk generates clicks
I was walking down the street the other day, seething with rage over Elon Musk, as always. I couldn’t contain my facial twitches and mutterings to myself when I happened upon a young woman who asked me if something was wrong.
I began the way I started every conversation, “Oh, Elon Musk, you say? Fuck him! Fuck that motherfucker.”
“…who?”
I continued on, the way a Redditor like me always does. “Did you know his father owned an emerald mine? Or that he wasn’t even one of the original founders of one of the companies he now runs? Outrageous.” The very idea that someone could lead a company to greater success than the people who created it nearly made me shit my pants in sheer fury.
She kept her eyes on me while her head drew back. ”Oh, uh, yeah. I get a little bit jealous, too, when one of my friends does well for themselves.”
“Oh, I never met the guy. I just post on the Internet every day about how angry he makes me. The way he forces me to read everything he posts on Twitter…it’s intolerable. I wish our benevolent car dealerships and oil companies would squash him like a bug already.”
“Riiiight.” She stepped away slowly at first before taking off into a sprint. That Felon Muskrat. His cult had gotten to another innocent person with their brainwashing and propaganda.
The Internet was really going to hear about it today.
This is great lol
Shame awards are not a thing anymore
Technically slowing demand increase, I guess, which is close enough to “slowing demand” for the author of these articles not to have to feel grimy for being clickbait. (Although they should.)
I agree with you, but there is such a thing as the growth of the growth, not just the growth.
Shitty journalists. They write what gets the clicks. That’s it.
It’s interesting as reports coming from China and the EU are having blockbuster EV sales a few weeks ago with Norway leading with 80% EV local sales.
If growth is less YoY per quarter then growth is slowing.
EVs are better in every way except convenience. The last time I needed to charge my Polestar, I had to wait an hour because there was only one charger in the whole town. In NYC, I have to drive to the one or two EV fast charging stations in Brooklyn which takes at least 20 minutes in traffic and then another hour waiting to get it full.
Fortunately we’re adding a fast charger to the house but it’s way way more convenient to simply spend 5 minutes filling up at a gas station. And electric cars are expensive and they really don’t give you very much for the money. Especially if you don’t care about software. I can understand why people are holding out for as long as possible.
The sheer amount of EV’s sitting in lots now… and the ability to go on cars.com and find thousands of em… back in late 2021 to early 2022, I tried searching for EV’s to buy on cars.com and couldn’t find SHIT. Now in 2023, there’s a fuckton of EV’s for sale. And I tell you, I was on cars.com every single day looking for a Bolt to buy in early 2022. I would’ve sprung for an EV if I waited, but I needed a car right away.
Hybrids? Much harder to find, especially Toyota hybrids. My local dealers are constantly trying to get more Priuses and Corolla Hybrids in stock, and Rav4 Primes are basically impossible to find, even used. I can go on cars.com and find 100 used Model Y’s in my area, heck even on Facebook. No one is selling their hybrids on Facebook or any site.
But this sub eats it up anyway. Stop making sense! EVs are stupid and a failure!
CEOs and shareholders only care about growth of growth, that’s why they’re real jerks.
Yeah, there has been blatant EV misinformation on this sub and in the media in general. EV sales are only growing. Not slowing. It’s a careful misrepresentation of percentages that makes it look like EV growth is falling. Look at every major auto manufactures sales reports and EV sales are outperforming expectations nearly across the board.
Talking percentages is kind of misleading with EV’s since the number of cars sold is much smaller compared to ICE (for obvious reasons). A 50% Q3 increase in EV sales is about 100K vehicles. I’m having trouble finding ICE only data, but all vehicle sales in Q3 23 had a 15% increase over Q3 22 which is about 600K cars. It’s not exactly an apples to apples comparison.
The reason people say EV sales are slowing is because the growth is not as high as it was, even though it’s still growth. EV’s often sit on dealer lots longer than their ICE counterparts currently. Check out the Cox data on this from Q2 and Q3.
And I’m not arguing EV vs ICE because they both have their place. I’m strictly talking about the numbers.
The dealer lot info is really irrelevant. It shows an in-balance in supply demand for some brands, but overall speaking only sales number matter.
You can argue what happened was some companies overestimated the growth of EV market or overestimated the desirability of their own product.
Dollars from petrol companies.
The “writers” at these sites probably just copy/pasted oil company marketing people’s requests directly into ChatGPT lol.
Hanlon’s razor
“Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.”
You mean like how every explosion on a Russian military base is caused by careless smoking 🚬?
Brilliant
I feel this is less EV attacks and more Elon Musk attacks, honestly.
equally cringe imo
And from Toyota. Instead of actually investing money into making BEVs, they are investing all their resources in churning out headlines about their breakthrough battery tech (coming soon!) and other fud.
Who funded those flamboyant videos? Who is behind them? It isn’t Toyota’s style. Could it be Tesla itself, false flagging Big Daddy Toyota?
Dollars from r/cars users
Did they mention people who drive manual have bigger dicks?
Look I think I’m on your side but I swear I hear way more complaining about stick shift supremacists than actual stick shift supremacist nonsense. Quite possibly the dumbest lasting schism in the automotive community.
Actually my stick shift adds to the length of my johnson…and increases sales by 48%.