Load of shit
Tesla’s build quality?
The copium being consumed in this post would be enough to sustain a mars colony for a few decades…
It’s unclear what the failures were. I tried to look up the source but only found a summary. In these kind of tests I expect wrongly adjusted lights to show up often, which is not the biggest deal imho.
The problem with the brakes being that they’re not often used and become rusty. Most of the time, the car will use the electronic brake / the motor. Other cars that offer one pedal driving have the same issue, but because the Model 3 is by far the most sold car in that category, the problem has become statistically significant. At least that’s what an employee of the Swiss MFK (Swiss version of the vehicle inspection) told me just the other day.
No idea what’s going on with the suspension, though.
Well, if anything like Finland it will fail for visual rust on the disks, even if the braking force and brake balance are within tolerance.
I guess it’ll depend on how anal the motor vehicle testing is. In Switzerland it’s 5 year intervals for example, in Germany it’s 2. And they’re known for being extremely “through” in Germany. But at the same time, they sometimes let cars pass that have bumpers duct taped.
Except they say in the article that the two other electric cars they have statistics about don’t have brake problems. Zoe and Golf.
Dammit, all we want is a proper EV with good build quality.
Can’t we just stick a Tesla drivetrain in a Toyota and be done with it?
Haven’t heard of the 2012-2014 Toyota RAV4 EV?
I guess you’d have to live in California to know. Or be a weird EV fan.
BMW has the best EV drivetrains at the time being. Most efficient and true coasting.
wow what a hit piece. How did they forget to mention that the BMW X1, X5 and X6 did even worse? ( among other cars )
They did not though. You took 5th year values for these but 3rd year for model 3
The sub 10 micron distorted the test
A few weeks ago I asked if the European teslas had better build quality than the American ones. Many told me yes but this data clearly indicates no.
Models that are 3yrs old now have been built in Fremont.
Next year the first batch of Model 3s with heat pumps and black trim from Shanghai will start getting their inspections.
From what I understand from the model Y community it’s Shanghai>Berlin>Austin>Freemont in terms of build quality.
Fremont.
Which one’s the best??
He literally said it in the post that you answered to.
The primary issue it the use of road salt combined with little usage of brakes due to regenerative breaking. Norway don’t have this problem as they prefer to use gravel. But geographies where road salt is a common occurrence during winter? Brakes should be cleaned on a yearly basis + owner need pay additional attention to actually use the brakes from time to time to clear out surface rust.
If you don’t? Discs will be pitted in no time which is an automatic failure at the German inspection.
Ya, da user error vas da problem!
Trust me, Norway uses a ton of salt on anything other than driveways each year. If you put gravel on a main road you would shot gun pedestrians or the cars behind.
Very little compared to Denmark - and for good reason. Salt won’t do you any good when the temperature drops below -10 C. Happens rarely in Denmark, but it’s a common occurrence in Norway. Which is why different countries take a different approach to keeping roads clean. Same with spiked tires. They practically don’t exist in Denmark. Quite common in Sweden and Norway outside the major cities.
Since the TÜV for new vehicles is after three years, all these Model 3 tested were Fremont built cars. I think we can expect this number to go down after Q2/24, because then the Shanghai built M3 will arrive for the check.
Build quality is about assembly, so its in regard to things like panel gaps etc.
This seems to be more about parts sourcing and materials rather than how they were put together.
Was the suspension chosen insufficient for the car? Are the brakes bad quality?
Note that Model Y’s aren’t a good data point (yet) either. These inspections are only required after the first three years of owning a new car (and then every two years thereafter), and Grünheide hasn’t been running that long. Thus, while there are German-made Teslas on German roads, they aren’t showing up for the mandatory inspection just yet.
Additionally, this inspection looks at technical roadworthiness, not at overall build quality.
Empirical evidence of absolute shite build quality. Love it.
You should read the TUV report - the reason for failure is rust on brakes which is going to be common across all EVs. Most popular EVs haven’t been on the road for 3 years yet and therefore haven’t undergo TUV yet. But by all means, don’t let facts get in the way of your circlejerk.
The eGolf and Zoe do have breaking-strategies that involve using the mechanical break-disks from time to time (even if you are only breaking slightly). This way the rust should get removed over time. The downside is that the car is less efficient, that’s why Tesla is not doing it I guess
You should read the TUV report
Have you?
Why are you trying to hand wave rusty brakes. It’s a real safety concern that could and should be fixed easily.
The fix is using the brakes once a week
I wonder what the specific reasons were for the failures?
Hopefully these issues have already been resolved, at least partially, with the new update to the model 3. It’s biggest hardware upgrade is mainly the suspension.
Only time will tell though
From what I just looked up the model 3 suspension was improved in 2023. I’m seeing info it was also improved in 2021. 3 years ago is the 2020 model, so it’s quite possible these issues are already addressed in new cars on the road today. The 2022 Model 3 was supposed to be the most reliable Model 3 yet based on tests.
Tesla has known these problems for years and if they wanted to fix them by now, they would’ve. Sadly they haven’t and I can only assume as to why.
Some of the problems were solved a couple times (according to at Zimmermann on YouTube). But due to the part shortage Tesla decided to use the old iteration again :/
Resolved by removing stalks and making it cheaper? So much coping lol
If you know how these inspections work you will know that unlike other brands Tesla doesn’t do the inspections themselves so they are all done at third party inspection sites. The other manufacturers do them at the dealer where they first fix everything and then inspect them. This has been covered extensively in the past but every year this data is trotted out as proof of something. The selection bias causes this data to be meaningless.
The selection bias causes this data to be meaningless.
selection bias?
ALL cars sold in Germany?
can you clarify?
All European countries that I am aware of try to make sure used cars are in good condition to keep on the road. This is why they promote regular inspections, which varies from country to country. The Tesla Model 3 has just started going through these inspections in Germany, and it has already earned an unpleasant title: the vehicle with the most inspection failures among 111 other models.
The Technischer Überwachungsverein (TÜV, or Technical Inspection Association) needs to inspect the cars in Germany for the first time three years after they are delivered to their first owners. After that, they have to be retested every two years
If you know how these inspections work you will know that unlike other brands Tesla doesn’t do the inspections themselves so they are all done at third party inspection sites.
that’s how they do it… for everyone.
The other manufacturers do them at the dealer
…it says independent - they’re not being sneaky. they started because a steam engine blew up over 140 years go.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technischer_%C3%9Cberwachungsverein#T%C3%9CV_Rheinland
TÜVs (German pronunciation: [ˈtʏf]; short for German: Technischer Überwachungsverein, English: Technical Inspection Association) are internationally active**, independent service companies** from Germany and Austria that test, inspect and certify technical systems, facilities and objects of all kinds in order to minimize hazards and prevent damages. The TÜV companies are organized into three large holding companies, TÜV Nord, TÜV Rheinland and TÜV SÜD (with TÜV Hessen), along with the smaller independent companies TÜV Thüringen, TÜV Saarland and TÜV Austria.
History
With the increasing number and efficiency of steam engines during the Industrial Revolution, there had been more and more accidents caused by exploding (or more precisely, bursting) boilers. After the explosion of the boiler at the Mannheim Aktienbrauerei in January 1865, the idea was pursued there to subject boilers to regular inspections on a voluntary basis, as was already the case in Great Britain.
Ouch for Tesla :( It’s a bit disappointing. While I would never buy car from them, I sort of hope they will be a beacon of EVs for the successful transition from ICE to EVs.
They already the beacon
There is something strange about this. I don’t hear about suspension issues for model 3s in the tesla forums. Also the satisfaction surveys are quite high of the owners.
I don’t think it’s that odd. You reasearch just wasn’t very good. If you e.g. search for “Querlenker” in Tesla’s largest German forum you’ll find plenty of results. And I would bet it is the same in English language forums.
I searched for Querlenker in an English tesla forum and got 0 results
I’m a little puzzled too. It doesn’t say what the problem is, other than suspension. Is something bent or cracked? Are bolts loose? I’ve never heard of this issue on NA Teslas.
my guess would be brakes. Thats the most common problem with EVs and since tesla doesn’t do inspections these are usually only caught at the TÜV
Probably this.
The ball joint creak seems like a pretty widespread issue, seems like the sort of thing that should have been resolved with a recall.
Control arms in general seem to have issues though, makes me think they’re just trying to replace under warranty as much as needed to avoid a full blown recall, which is unfortunate.
I’ve had my UCAs replaced, I’ve had clunking, I’ve had squeaks and ball joint issues, and now they’re squeaking again after the UCAs were replaced. 60k miles.
I had this, the lower arm bushing went too. I think they called it the compliance arm. It wasn’t too bad.
There is something strange about this.
Whats so strange about this? Every vehicle has to go through this inspection and there are minor and critical flaws. Critical flaws mean the car is no longer allowed onto public roads until that critical flaw is repaired. This data comes from 10m+ official tüv inspections and only cars with a reasonable sample size are allowed into this yearly report. The inspection guidelines are the same for everyone and the inspectors are usually highly paid professionals that require not so easy to earn qualifications. They dont work for the same company, if youre suspecting any grand conspiracy against Tesla, its extremely unlikely. There are way too many people involved who have absolutely nothing in common.
There are way too many people involved who have absolutely nothing in common.
They are all Germans who live in a country with a very influential automobile industry. There is a definite conflict of interest there. That doesn’t prove a conspiracy, but it could indicate a bias.
Either way, I hope that Tesla takes this seriously.
If you look at the whole list, there are many BMW and VW who make the top bottom in later years.
My model 3 needed a full suspension replacement after about 10 months of driving. It was one of the final straws for me.
i highly doubt TUV is not biased towards German brands. There were other cars that did worse like the X5 and X6 but they’re not even mentioned in the article
I don’t hear about suspension issues for model 3s in the tesla forums.
You’re probably American and Americans in general have no idea what a bad technical state their cars are in.
USA car brands are in good company with European car brands for poor reliability.
Oh a lot of us do. But a lot of us are stuck with mechanically poor vehicles to get to meager paying jobs 20 miles away with no public transport. Sad state we are in.
I trust the German TUV way more than Tesla forum lurkers.
The German TUV is comprised of human beings and implicit bias and confirmation bias are real consequences of being human.
If I believe that Volkswagen makes better cars than Tesla, I am a patriotic German citizen, and my job is to inspect cars from both brands, then I might be just a little more strict with inspections of Teslas than with VWs, even if I am not doing it consciously.
I am not saying that Tesla doesn’t have a real problem here; just that the TUV has an obvious conflict of interest that could result in some bias.
Mine regularly goes “clunk” when fully turning the wheel (like when backing into a parking spot). Also seems to be an extra clunk going over speed bumps.
I have the same issue on my Model Y - have you ever talked to Service about this?
no. otherwise the car is fine.
Except I did get rear ended a few weeks ago. I’ll have htem look at it while it’s being repaired.
It’s the control arms. A known issue, I had mine repaired under warranty.
Because 99% of Tesla owners don’t know what to look for in a visual inspection, nor do they understand the individual components of a strut assembly. They’re not mechanics, they just own a car.
lso: it wouldn’t be the TÜV that is biased, since they include both in their reporting. It would be the news outlets that like Tesla as a click generator.
Yes especially since many fans of Tesla laud the “tech” of the car more than valuing the traditional car/driving characteristics aside from a 0-60 time.
My guess it’s probably just on the edge of being acceptable. Good enough so customers don’t notice. And good enough so >85% of vehicles pass.
The plural of anecdotes isn’t data.
Secondly because they’ve bought into the brand. I remember when Tesla workers were replacing a mount in the front end with wood/cardboard and plastic straps because of supply chain issues and forums were praising them for being critical thinkers… Not complaining that a critical mount was being replaced by inferior materials.
My neighbor had a recurring suspension issue on his 3. I think he eventually got it resolved but he did have a problem for a while
They are investors. Got to keep the stock price high. The cars are appallingly built. It should be common knowledge at this point.
I have a 2018 Tesla model 3 LR, they replaced the entire rear suspension due to corrosion, I failed a state safety inspection. The front control arms were also replaced due to squeaking.
Getting corrosion issues on the body now, down low below doors.
I’m in northern Vermont, in the snowbelt, lots of salt on roads
Control arms are a constant problem for Model 3 owners.
The issue is with the brakes - on the Teslas they get rust because of OPD and that disqualifies them from passing the test. It’s an easy fix though
Is this a joke.
You’re surprise a tesla forum is full of people who love the car?
Reminds me of how the Apple forums are full of people who broadly defend and deny issues that Apple later guess class actioned for and settles.
Model 3 Suspension component failure is something like 14x the average car. Seriously. One would have to be blind to not hear about the control arm failures.
bUt tHeY dOnT nEeD mAiNtEnAnCe!