• helenslunch@feddit.nl
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    6 months ago

    Yeah, again, I’m not trying to argue either way. I’m just saying you can’t pretend to not understand why people are apprehensive, regardless of right or wrong. And it’s not like the medical industry has never gotten anything wrong and we find out it’s been hurting or killing people for decades.

    • jol@discuss.tchncs.de
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      6 months ago

      I can’t understand why people can’t just mind their own business. Let me rise my children according to what science says, not what your feelings say. What parents want is to keep their children safe, and puberty blockers helps these children avoid hardships later in life.

      • helenslunch@feddit.nl
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        6 months ago

        You can’t understand why people care about others? I guess we don’t need child protective services. Just let people raise children however they want! No parent has ever abused children before! Mind your own business!

        No one has ever used “science” to justify crimes, right? Because as we all know, science has no room for debate and all scientists agree with each other.

        I don’t understand why you’re replying to me with this, it’s not relevant to what I was saying. I actually agree with you but you’re sabotaging your own argument with shit logic.

        • jol@discuss.tchncs.de
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          6 months ago

          Yes, I can. But this law is the opposite of caring about others. You’re just able to twist anything and disguise it as empathy “for the children” and couldn’t care the least what the children actually want.

          • helenslunch@feddit.nl
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            6 months ago

            Yes, I can.

            Then we’ve answered your question about why people “can’t just mind their own business”.

            You’re just able to twist anything and disguise it as empathy “for the children” and couldn’t care the least what the children actually want.

            If you’re just going to assume that anyone who disagrees with you does so on the basis that they’re just a giant piece of shit out to hurt people for no reason, then there is no discussion to be had, and no progress to be made.

            Maybe open your mind to the possibility that that’s not true, and that people simply have legitimate concerns for children, much like yourself, even if they are misplaced. If you want to actually improve the situation you’ll try to empathize and educate them rather than instantly lambast them and treat them like human garbage.

            • jol@discuss.tchncs.de
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              6 months ago

              The difference is that a blanket ban, even a temporary one “just in case”, is actively hurting children. In the UK, trans teenagers need several years of counseling and doctor visits and jumping through hoops before they can actively start transitioning. These drugs help at least halting puberty, otherwise total transition is much harder or impossible. I don’t think these drugs should be easily accessible, but right now it’s already so hard to get, that kids are getting them from the dark web in secret!

              Sure, there are bad parents, and abusive parents. But you can’t justify saving children by hurting other children. I’m not “assuming” anything. Defending this ban is literally hurting children.

              • helenslunch@feddit.nl
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                6 months ago

                Again, you are still trying to argue about why the OP topic is bad. I know. I agree. That is not the conversation I am trying to have.

                But you can’t justify saving children by hurting other children…Defending this ban is literally hurting children.

                Other people disagree with you. That is the whole point. They would say the exact same thing about you. That doesn’t make them bad people, it just makes them misinformed.

        • FinnFooted@lemmy.world
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          6 months ago

          If they actually cared, they would take the time to understand the actual situation and realize that puberty blockers aren’t experimental or dangerous.

        • Hugh_Jeggs@lemm.ee
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          6 months ago

          You’re missing the fact that you could easily replace “science” in their comment with “Facebook”, because those are the “scientists” they’re referring to

    • Cethin@lemmy.zip
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      6 months ago

      Being apprehensive about something you don’t understand is perfectly acceptable and understandable. Taking away people’s choice to make an informed decision for themselves with their doctor because of the apprehension is not acceptable (or it shouldn’t be at least).

      Every medical procedure has consequences, as does the forgoing of such procedure. The decision should be left for each individual to decide for themselves, not a government making medical decisions for all people while being ignorant of their situation.

      • helenslunch@feddit.nl
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        6 months ago

        Taking away people’s choice to make an informed decision for themselves

        These are children we’re talking about. We don’t allow them to make decisions for themselves, informed or otherwise, for lots of things. Parents often cannot be trusted to make the right decisions for their children either.

        not a government making medical decisions for all people while being ignorant of their situation.

        We also don’t let doctors make many medical decisions. The medical industry is incredibly-highly regulated, regardless of what region we’re talking about. Doctors and hospitals care about money more than anything, like most humans. They will do whatever you want for the right price.

        The government makes rules to protect its’ citizens from harm. You can argue that they made the wrong decision, but to argue that they shouldn’t be allowed to make any decisions is nothing short of anarchy.

          • helenslunch@feddit.nl
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            6 months ago

            Hospitals and doctors are pretty universally part of the National Health Service, it’s not really about money.

            Hospitals and doctors in the UK are all volunteers?

            I’m also 100% in favour of anarchy though so I don’t know if there’s any point in discussing anything further with you.

            Well that’s something we can agree on.

        • Cethin@lemmy.zip
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          6 months ago

          As an anarchist, yeah that’d pretty much be anarchy.

          We couldn’t have people make decisions for themselves I guess! We have to make sure those rich elites in control of the government are there to protect us from our total stupidity. /s

          Of course there need to be regulations. The procedure needs to be tested to be safe on humans (which it has, to a higher degree than many other medicines), and the parents/guardians would need to reach a decision with their child and with a licensed medical professional.

          Government officials aren’t licensed medical professionals. They shouldn’t be making that decision. They should lay out the groundwork for licensing and medical testing and leave the actual results and decisions to the professionals and the patients.

    • fiercekitten@lemm.ee
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      6 months ago

      Your average person may feel apprehensive about puberty blockers and hormone treatment because conservative/right wing news propaganda has been lying to people and misinforming them for over a decade on this issue. Your average person may not know better because misinformation is rampant.

      But the people in positions of power, such as Victoria Mary Atkins? It’s part of their job to be properly informed, and she is, and she doesn’t care. She still had the gall to cite the Dr. Cass review when pushing through this harmful rule that’s going to irreparably harm trans children.

      Dr. Hilary Cass knows better too. The people in power on the right love that review because it gives an appearance of legitimacy to their cruelty against trans people, and lawmakers and judges know they can use it to push though their anti-trans agendas.