- cross-posted to:
- ukraine@sopuli.xyz
- cross-posted to:
- ukraine@sopuli.xyz
Summary
Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau opposed any deal letting Russia keep Ukrainian land, saying it would encourage other countries to break international rules.
Speaking to a NATO meeting, he highlighted Canada’s $19.5 billion aid to Ukraine and stressed the need to defend global stability.
Trudeau defended his plan to raise military spending to 2% of GDP by 2032 after criticism of Canada’s low defense funding.
He warned against isolating Ukraine, saying continued support is crucial to stop further global conflicts.
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If Russia is permitted to annex any part of Ukraine it sends the message that they can attack any country and eventually take over parts of it.
If the world doesn’t stop Russia from taking Ukraine, Russia isn’t going to stop once they’ve taken Ukraine.
Exactly! I don’t know why appeasement is even discussed with any seriousness. We’ve all seen this before.
Previously on: “World History”
England: “Fine, fine, you can have, like,
Polanda slice of Czechoslovakia, but then chill out!”Narrator: “He did not ‘chill out’.”
(Edited for accuracy. Thanks!)
The United Kingdom, along with France, ceded Czechoslovakia’s Sudetenland, not Poland, to Hitler’s Germany; in fact, it was the Nazi regime’s invasion of Poland the following year that prompted France and the United Kingdom to declare war.
Excellent points and I really appreciate your correction. Accuracy is still important even for rhetorical jokes like mine haha.
Edited. Thank you! :)
Can’t understand why you’re being downvoted. This is quite literally the collective assessment of NATO.
It’s also essentially why NATO exists. I understand the “not involved in conflict” clause for applying but this seems like a special occasion where the conflict is coming from the whole reason the damn organization was created in the first place
I don’t get why Russia isn’t picked apart by its neighbors. They behave like a bully, just gang up on him already.
2/3rds of Ukrainians want the same. They just need the help to resist the Russian invasion.
Poll data was part of Perun’s latest video on the latest developments of the war and what the turning point will be:
https://youtu.be/vf2vSoWsmgI (0:50:38)
Why only 2/3?
getting 2/3 of anyone to agree on anything is hard enough when you’re not dealing with 40 million people, all of whom have direct consequences of the outcome of the decision. you’re gonna have a few deluded souls who’ve allowed themselves to think russia (lowercase intentional) is their ally, but you’re also going to have people who think the best thing to do is ceasefire now and find a better path in the future. i’d estimate there’s around one perpective on this war per ukrainian citizen, and so “should we retain our boundaries when this is over” is just one way of getting a cross sectional view of those perspectives
With the war this long, I wouldn’t be surprised if there is a segment of the Ukrainian population that says, “Let’s just end this. If that means we give up some land for peace, and Russia pays for it, it’s worth the lives saved.”
I’ve been reading a lot about the US revolutionary war and there were definitely those who wanted an end to hostilities even if it meant returning to the crown.
I’m not saying it’s right because we all know Russia would absolutely invade again. But it might help explain some of the 1/3 that don’t agree with not giving an inch to Russia.
I assume the other 3rd are “Ukrainian” in the way that they’ve been places in Ukraine by Russ, but remain loyal to Russia, not Ukraine
Meh. To be honest, I shouldn’t be surprised that even if your assumption is true, this was the result.
Hell, 45 became 47
The US elections aren’t the only thing targeted by the Kremlin’s propaganda
War weariness is a thing.
I wouldn’t be surprised if a non-insignificant number of that 1/3 that doesn’t oppose Russia keeping some territory are just tired of the war and want it to be over.
3 years is a long time to live in a war torn country with frequent power outages and food shortages. People tend to disassociate when it doesn’t affect them directly and if they happen to live on the Western side of Ukraine, losing territory on the Eastern border will have less of an effect on them than continued food and power shortages.For one reason: because there are selfish people who only care about themselves and today, not others and not tomorrow.
Imagine being selfish, and just thinking that if the war ended now, your own quality of life will immediately improve, to hell with others whose homes are now Russian territory.
War is hell. They have made many sacrifices. There is some part of the population that would like for the war to end and defacto (not dejure) give up Crimea and donbass in return for NATO protection. Unfortunately that outcome is very much not possible unless they get more help from the west. Russia’s current goal is annexation of all of Ukraine.
1/3 are probably working class people who are aware that their conditions under the ukrainian government or russian government will be the same and that war will only bring them more misery.
Wow, us ml leaking or something?
Your brain is leaking. Do you have anything serious to say or you are here only to shitpost?
Well that’s not a very kindhearted response
Raise the military spend now. Stop kicking the can. We’ve helped, sure, but we need to do more.
Agree 100% we can’t rely on our rich bi-polar brother in the methlab of a house next door to protect us anymore.
As one of those rich bipolar methlab brothers, save yourself while you can
You need protection from greedy politicians and the military industry sucking in public money and fueling wars.
Finland has a pretty absurdly strong military. It really is a waste of money. But it has this military because it shares a border with Russia. If Finland did not have such a military, it would be invaded. That is what empires do. Finland’s military does not start war; it prevents it.
Ideally, neither side would have to waste money on this military, but until Russia gives up theirs, Finland can’t give up theirs either. Good luck convincing Russia to do that.
Not long ago, I would have been in total agreement with you. The very idea of stealing land through invasion was so antiquated to me that I did not believe even Russia would do it until the moment their troops crossed the Ukrainian border. Now, I reluctantly am forced to conclude that not only is Russia that backward, it probably always was, and the only reason Finland has been safe all these years is because of the military that I thought was so absurd.
If Finland did not have such a military, it would be invaded.
That’s a speculation you are making, russia spend 20 times as much as finland does in war they wouldn’t have much problems invading finland if it was all about military strength.
That is what empires do
That’s true USA does the same.
Ideally, neither side would have to waste money on this military, but until Russia gives up theirs, Finland can’t give up theirs either.
While finland spend less than russia NATO combined spend 20 times as much as russia does in war. Do you see where your logic leads? To match USA alone russia would have to tenfold their military budget.
These figures require sources.
Sure Russia could beat Finland in an invasion, eventually, but due to Finland’s army, it would be far more trouble than it’s worth. And let’s leave the USA out of this.
Buuuut for as long as we’re not leaving the USA out of this, it is worth pointing out that Mexico and Canada do not live in constant fear of being invaded. Finland does, and this fear of invasion is very rational.
The Kremlin would be thrilled to see you in this thread shitting on the US
I’m Canadian. It’s a rite of passage for us to love our sibling while also shit on them. Don’t mistake it for a lack of caring.
Hell, I don’t know what my, assumed, fellow countryman was on there. Complaining about the shittiness of our country is damn near the most American thing, right after Mac and Cheese, and German Chocolate Cake.
most American thing
German Chocolate Cake
The name makes 0 sense but damn that looks good.
That’s the joke
That is an American pasttime
I’m American. shitting on and shooting in America is my right bah gaw and i ain’t take kindly to no mcarthy-eque nationalist shit.
Go hop into a river.
Tax the rich to fund it lol.
Raise the military spend now.
Fuck no, cut the military spending and stop fueling wars.
Canada already spend billions of dollars in war, increasing military budget will only get you more war.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_with_highest_military_expenditures
Only works if your adversaries also cut military spending. Unfortunately countries like Russia have shown that they’ll happily attack those unable to defend themselves. This also means that increased military spending can cause less war if it deters those who would otherwise attack.
Only works if your adversaries also cut military spending.
Usa and nato spend 10 times more than what russia does. Open the link and do the math yourself. They have no good excuse to raise the military budget even according to your logic.
Unfortunately countries like Russia have shown that they’ll happily attack those unable to defend themselves.
Go check the history of your country, every authoritarian nation will try to do that. Raising military spending does not make people more secure, it only increase rulers and government power. Wars are fought by people not money.
This also means that increased military spending can cause less war if it deters those who would otherwise attack.
Spending more on war will get you more war. You can see it happening right now in ukraine and middle east.
There is only a war in Ukraine because Pootin illegally invaded it.
War could stop tomorrow if he pulled forces back to Russias border.
Ukraine attacking russia in their territory with US and NATO weapons isn’t going to make russia stop, it will give russia even more claims to keep up with the war. That’s how weapons give you more war.
But it ok for Russia to attack any part of Ukraine?
Typical bully behaviour- attacking someone weaker than themselves and then complaining when the victim fights back.
They are not just complaining about it they are using it as leverage to their propaganda and to send more people into war.
Bullies a lot of times don’t attack you directly, they threaten you and piss you off until you end up attacking them. The reality of this war and pretty much all others is that there’s a bunch of rulers who benefit from war and seek more of it not less. During the past century USA and Russia have been provoking and fighting each others directly and in proxy wars. Cutting military budget to 0 is how you stop wars.
Canada’s expenditure as a % of gdp according to your own source is pretty weak already. Insisting on having no military spending is hardly a real argument. Also, Canada has a very real stake in ensuring russia doesn’t succeed given those coveted waters you guys have along the northern territories.
Canada’s expenditure as a % of gdp according to your own source is pretty weak already.
Billions of dollars every year. You are feed up on propaganda, if mass media were to tell you that a billion is a big number you would be here complaining but propaganda have you thinking that you are not spending enough.
Insisting on having no military spending is hardly a real argument.
I wonder if you have any clue how these money are being spend.
I’m not Canadian, and the only source of information about Canada’s military spending my statement is based off of is the one you provided.
Trudeau is spot on and Canada should ask the Blue States if they would like to be annexed.
Yeah sure, it will go like this:
2025 - blue states join Canada
2026 - red states aka the remainder of the USA face growing unrest as their funding handouts are cut off
2026 - tech companies in the province of Canifornia stop sharing new tech breakthroughs with USA due to posturings by their increasingly expanding military industrial complex and proposed weapon developments
2027 - huge skills drain in USA as health professionals and remaining scientists flee to Canada
2028 - Gilead starts amassing troops and staging ‘special military exercises’ on their border with CanadaCanada counter attacks via this banger. https://youtu.be/2gfve5QhWyI
nice Gilead reference. under his eye
Fuck ton of military bases in California and the other blue states.
Well in that case all their base now belong to us.
+1…However, by 2028, the MAGATs will resort to violence on each other to settle their internal disputes.
The population of Canada has only recently surpassed the population of California. Annexing the blue states would be a big meal for Canada to digest
As an American, I’m confused that Canada has less than 2% GDP for military spending. Do you guys just spend all that money back on yourselves? Fucking nice.
Yeah honestly as a Canadian with 2 kids and another on the way. It’s pretty awesome. We get in the neighborhood of $1500 a month for our two kids already and once the next one is born we will be getting north of $2200 a month from our government. It covers a lot of bills and makes the life we have possible. We live small but we make our money go a looong way and prioritize time with our kids over extra cash flow. My wife works part time and right now I’m able to be a full time stay at home dad until my wife takes another maternity leave then I’ll go back to work part or fulltime.
Edit: Also our healthcare is fully covered. It’s such a relief. My wife had one potential issue with her last pregnancy and our healthcare system went above and beyond to make sure everything was fine. They immediately sent her to a more capable facility by helicopter and had specialists waiting and everything. And it was all free. They take children’s health very seriously and spend any money necessary.
Some people hate our healthcare system and I get it, it has its flaws. But when shit hits the fan and you are in need. They rush to your safety it’s actually crazy. My wife and child ended up being absolutely fine but they didn’t even take the chance.
One time my youngest had a really bad virus and was at home. He took a turn for the worse and started having low level breathing and his skin changed colour. We rushed to the hospital since it’s literally 2 mins from our house. The second someone at the front entrance saw his little face it was like go time. They cleared the hallways immediately and like 5 doctors and nurses took him from us and rushed him into the Emerg. They spend a lot of time training for moments like that and when someone is really in need of help they are there and they work like a well oiled machine to save lives.
Canada’s health care sounds like what Finland’s health care is supposed to be.
Instead our government is busy running it to the ground at terminal velocity.
Oh parts of Canada are doing their best in that department as well.
You get paid that much PER MONTH? That’s 18,000 per year.
In the US, most people just get tax credits. They don’t come anywhere near $18k.
If you’re poor enough, you’ll qualify for WIC which is state dependent, generally $25 per month per kid under 4 years, ~$50 per month for the mom, and limited to certain food/child items.
Thank you for sharing.
On one hand, it’s disgusting that we don’t have a similar system. Yet at the same time, you’re the “proof” against such a system and the reason conservatives would never support it - that people won’t work anymore if we had this system. Neither of you have a full time job.
There has to be a better compromise.
The proof against such a system. Ouch mate. I’m not that bad I promise. I worked construction since I was 15 years old. I’m 31 now. Only in the last 6 months have I not been working, and it’s only because I got let go from my last job and couldn’t find another in my field fast enough before winter. Construction jobs don’t hire much in the winter where I live, everything really slows down. I swung up hard when I married and my wife works at the hospital I was talking about and makes more than double what I do. She would work full time but she hasn’t been at this hospital long enough for the seniority for a full time position. So she working part time until a spot opens up.
When we first met she worked in a major cities downtown hospital in a trauma centre and she worked way more than fulltime. I was working 60-80 hour weeks as a laborer insulating houses and highrises in Toronto for $21 an hour.
This is the only time in a our lives either of us has “slowed down” and I wouldn’t even call it that because life is more hectic than ever with a 3 and 1 year old and another one coming. I would say we’ve paid our dues to our country and now it’s helping us out a bit while we raise kids to help it out a bit in 20 years. It all comes back eventually. Our government will benefit from the fact that we had enough to make it through this period of our lives in a comftorable state and actually raise good kids. In 20 years our children will be in the workforce and will be returning that money in one way or another.
A good country wants all it people to be doing good. A good country should want less losers. It should support its people and especially its people who are raising its next generation. It could be argued that nothing is more important.
we have welfare here as well, but its income dependent. we also have unemployment insurance so when your let go from your job you can get paid out while looking for new work.
I’m assuming it’s because they really only have a single neighboring country, the US. Despite the Fallout games, I doubt that the US invasion/annexation of Canada is even seen as a remote possibility, or something that they could really ever meaningfully oppose were the US to even try it. There’s just no need to maintain a ridiculously large military when you’re neighbors with the country that has the largest military spending on Earth anyways, may as well just spend your money on your people.
We’re annexing them through conservative news sources instead. It’s slower, but quite effective.
Yes it is.
sigh
Fair, we’ll have them dismantling their welfare system in a few years’ time like they were red-blooded 'Mericans all along.
Oh, they’re working on it.
Trudeau needs to step down. He’s been ok, but I honestly don’t think he’d win another election. The Trudeau hate is insane.
And Mexico spends 8 billion on war a year.
Very nice.
I’m jealous.
20 billion
Man, I’m jealous.
His country has universal health care and isn’t wasting trillions a year policing the world like we are.
Our healthcare system has been deteriorating over the last 5-8 years now though with many healthcare professionals leaving the force for higher paying US opportunities. It’s lead to an annoying experience out here for anyone younger than 40 seeking healthcare.
Healthcare is also provincially managed
It’s more to do with the aging population.
And more significantly a lack of funding by conservative provincial governments, as the provinces are responsible for funding the system and conservatives have been in power for about the past 6-8 years now in basically every province experiencing health system failures.
I’ll let you in on something else. We spend as much taxes per capita on healthcare as America does.
Trump will fix that, right?
/s
Zelensky has already said the war will end quicker under Trump, which means he’s probably already had a chat with the new regime and is resigned to surrendering most of the land Russia have already taken.
And none of it will stop Russia regrouping and trying again in a few years.
I do not know if the war will end quicker under Trump.
But saying it will not end quicker under Trump (now that he’s elected) will send you back to politics 101.
IMO.
Massive immigration has pushed our health care system to the breaking point in most provinces, also most of the world is annoyed at us because we’re not meeting our NATO 2% GDP military funding. Our military is underfunded, most of our population borders the US so the current government doesn’t see a point in military funding since any attack on us would be an attack on the US. Also he raised our taxes to pay for all this aid to other countries, he’s not very popular right now because of all his new taxes. The second an election is called, he’s out in his ass and TinyTrump will be elected in his place and we’ll be in the same boat as you
Massive immigration is not why our healthcare systems are at breaking. In fact, they are critical in staffing an understaffed system.
Leading with it, and blaming it, is right into the narrative that is electing these right wing governments.
You fell for the propaganda :(
“International rules”? Is that a thing?
Theoretically, it has been since the Germans lost WW1
Not really, nobody did anything when Germany had broken the Munich agreement in 1939. It wasn’t until well into the war that UK and France declared it null and void.
Congress of Vienna was the first time historically I have really read about nation states pearl clutch about “international laws” and “rules based international order”, I might argue that it predates WW1 by about 100 years.
I just have to laugh every time I hear people pretend it means anything other than “powerful countries doing whatever they want”.
only if its not israel or us
russia is very much wrong here, but the western hypocrisy of ukraine vs palestine is next level of disgusting.
We really are at the point of “Well this guy wants us to exterminate innocents, and this guy wants us to not do that, so how about we only kill 3 Million jews this time instead of 6 million eh?” of Neo-Liberal discourse
NO! Don’t let Russia have a god damn thing, not even a single glass of water that comes from Ukraine.
What about putin fucks off? You are not even as cohorent as a russ bot.
Do you not understand what I’m saying? I’m saying Putin needs to fuck off
I agree. I hope Ukrainians abroad step up and go back to defend their country. Working in the technology industry I know there are many Ukrainian men who have left and hold jobs at technology companies. It’s time to go back and fight.
I’m not sure that the best way for a software developer to support the war effort is by carrying a gun.
Hopefully if they support the defense of Ukraine, they find a way to support the Defence of Ukraine. I’m hesitant to prescribe the best way to do that.
Someone posted an image of a squad of Ukrainian soldiers overlayed with their pre-war civilian jobs. They were all in tech, software engineers, data science, etc, etc.
If they have some special skills creating missile or drone software, or in cyber warfare — sure they can fight that way. But, it sounds like the front line needs reinforcements badly and these guys ought to at least step up for their country instead of hiding out abroad.
Has someone done a Russian version of the overlay?
Vlad: released convict Dmitri: bootlegger Yevgeny: herion addict
There are certainly tech focused positions in any modern military, but yeah, the front lines are probably not the best place for a software developer with probably no military training.
deleted by creator
Yo where was this attitude when russia annexed crimea?
🤔
Well, here they are today at least.
Politicians rely on people, and people have finally started to wake up.
Then he can pack his bags and go to the front
Removed by mod
The Russian infantry is accepting applications.
I haven’t blocked anyone before in Lemmy, what does it actually do?
It blocks them, but only if you leave a comment saying you blocked them or it won’t work.
It maintains your echo chamber.
Because having a logical conversation on the internet typically changes people’s opinion
Oh my.
US goes to Afghanistan, build bases in Syria, destroy Iraq, police every country in the world. Along with facilitating Israel annex of Palestine and illegal land grab.
Yet Canada is not interested in making any statement.
If Mexico goes socialist for any reason, will see Canadian soldiers in the front line annexing Mexico with the US.
Hypocrisy in foreign affairs are fucked up, and escalating the aggression has no benefit for mankind.
Canadian soldiers annexing Mexico
Pure insanity
Trump is the president so it doesn’t get more insane
