an 8-year-old girl and an 11-year-old boy are among the dead.
Great way to radicalize the next generation.
Ironically if they do capture and interrogate one ‘terrorist’ who was a childhood friend of theirs, all they will talk about is mosques and ancient Islamic antisemitism.
Children won’t be radicalised by that. Their parents would be. And people the age of their parents.
Reminder that teenagers are children.
You must have limited retrospective abilities, because sure as hell, the ideas from your childhood guided your life.
My point is that children lack the understanding of what caused this. It’s the reaction of the adults / role models in their life that will radicalise them.
I think you misunderstand how people grow up and introspect. There is a lot in childhood that will give an initial push and motivation, and it is not a desire to live up to their parents or other adults, and their desires. As people grow up they desire individuality, and their own life.
Role models can be a part, but these are usually exceptional people in some way. But at this point, wrt the topic, you should consider why these role models exist, and what they stand for. Not immediately jump to the conclusion of smth smth propaganda. If you want that discussion you should very specifically define the term of propaganda.
I’ve worked quite extensively with youth, including in radicalisation prevention. Children model their lives after adults. The term role model is simply different for children and for older people.
You are mixing up a lot of terms here without actually defining for what age group you want to apply them. So yeah, I can say with a lot of confidence that the death of young children is horrible, but it’s not the driving factor behind radicalisation. The reaction of the people around is.
I dont apply to a specific age group. From my personal understanding, as people grow up (and of course it depends heavily on education, culture), people will have strong memories from childhood and will reflect on them throughout life.
Hardships would likely cause people to not want their children to have hardships. Loss would likely cause vengeful directions to be righteous.
It’s only if the losses or hardships (over their life) are resolved do they go away, otherwise, it is fuel for fire. Whether radicalized or not. In this case, I would like to know what you perceive as radicalized here. I would only attribute terroristic desires or genocidal intentions, or other inhumane (as defined by international law) goals as radicalization.
It is not radical at all to want vengeance, or to punish for pain inflicted. It’s natural and even lawful if done within confines of agreed law, and many times required, otherwise anyone can do anything without objection or accountability.
Terrorism.
I bet this terrorist group will be using pigeons from now on.
These are extremely targeted attacks, not aimed at the wider population. It is meant to more than scare Hezbollah members for sure.
The stuff is blowing up inside stores and buildings around innocent people. How is that targeted? Israel doesn’t give 2 shits about innocent people being injured and possibly killed.
It’s still a million times better than dropping a thousand pound bomb on a refugee camp to take out 1 hamas guy, and that’s at least commendable.
It’s worse that they’re blowing up people in a country they’re not openly at war with, stirring shit and risking even more retaliation.
Bombing Refugee camps is not commendable
Being better than war crime is not commendable if you’re still at terrorism. Just because they’ve done horrible shit before doesn’t mean slightly less horrendous shit should be remarked upon and punished.
How is this not super targeted? Hitting 3000 terrorists and and only a handful of civilians as collateral is exceptionally good. For you it’s probably bad anytime Israel kills one of their enemies.
So like killing a “handful” of Israeli civilians would be “exceptionally good” if the target was a bunch of IDF reservists?
I mean, yeah. The tragic answer is that civilian casualties are inevitable in war, unfortunately.
According to a UN meeting from 2022, 90% of war casualties globally are civilians. That’s not to say that’s an acceptable ratio, in fact it’s horrifying, but it does show that a ratio of “a handful” to “a bunch” is quite a lot better than the average.
It’s never good, but when Hezbollah chose to restart the violence they knew it was never going to be without collateral
Israel has been massing forces on the Lebanon border and saying they will invade for months now. At what point is the Lebanese government allowed to defend itself?
Israel and Hezbollah have always had forces on the border staring at eachother.
After Hezbollah broke that status quo, Israel has been threatening to invade if they didn’t stop.
Can you explain why you’re blaming Israel for responding more than Hesbollah for starting it?
Ahistorical
Hezbollah could just chill and not attack Israel and this wouldn’t happen.
Traditionally, a targeted attack minimizes collateral damage to almost zero. Do you have stats on who was killed/injured? I do know 2 children were killed. I’m sure they were hard-core Hezbollah.
Doing this kind of attack indicates Israel didn’t care AT ALL who they took out. Ah, much like their reactions in Gaza.
3000 pagers exploded. All had small amounts of explosive like 20 g. You can watch videos of them exploding in traffic, supermarkets, etc. people next to them remain unharmed. So you have 3000 explosions all over the place including crowded areas. Two dead children is a quota of 1500:1. That is exceptionally good.
Compare that to the Hezbollah rocket than killed 11 Druze children in Israel.
Wow only 2 dead children. Amazing, let’s celebrate!
Members of Hezbollah endanger their families willingly.
Are you both siding this shit? Let me be clear, Hezbollah, Hamas AND Israel each have done awful things to innocent civilians in the name of revenge. How hard is it to say enough is enough and want innocent civilian populations ON ALL SIDES to not die? Children born into these situations, and many adults have zero opportunities to get away from the violence. They should not die due to factions and government decisions.
I agree that this war should end. It doesn’t simply end, if Israel stops military operations though.
https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/en/customary-ihl/v1/rule80 you know International laws exist for a reason, and Israel clearly violated many international laws, which by the way were created to prevent such events like WWII.
You know Israel can find a peaceful solution if it only permits the establishment of an independent state of Palestine. But instead they prefer to continue their warmongering politics.
Why was there no independent state of Palestine established in 1949-1967?
You think that’s some kind of gotcha. It isn’t.
Would you care to elaborate?
Nakba was in 1948. 1949-1967 Israel did not occupy the West Bank and Gaza. Why didn’t Palestinians establish a state then and there?
So would you say it’s using violence to instill terror and achieve political goals?
Terrorism, in its broadest sense, is the use of violence against non-combatants to achieve political or ideological aims.
Since this targets explicitly combatants, it’s not terrorism.
Different definitions of terrorism emphasize its randomness, its aim to instill fear, and its broader impact beyond its immediate victims
The attacks are extremely targeted, and thus not random at all. No terrorism.
Explicitly combatants… and anyone who happens to be in their vicinity when the bomb goes off.
“Extremely” targeted you say? So when they were detonated, the people doing the detonating had visual confirmation of the targets not being in close proximity to civilians?
the people doing the detonating had visual confirmation of the targets not being in close proximity to civilians
Or even had the pager at all instead of leaving it at home where their kids could get hold of it or a fire could be started.
The bombs are small. People in the vicinity are not harmed. You can see videos of them exploding in supermarkets and on streets. The only one injured is the owner of the pager.
Compare to the 11 Druze children in Israel Hezbollah killed recently.
Ah. So this 9-year-old-girl was killed on purpose then, I take it?
Since “People in the vicinity are not harmed” it had to have been targeted. Right? Right??
Killed on accident
Since this targets explicitly combatants
Hezbollah is, also, a political party. It’s military wing was formed to fight the 1982 Israeli invasion of Lebanon.
From what I can tell online its militant wing predates the political wing. Just adding that in because I thought it might be the other way around based on your comment
It is classified as a terrorist organisation by the majority of the international community. By legal definition, all Hezbollah members are terrorists regardless of what they do in the organisation, in the same way that all SS members are war criminals even if they were an office janitor or something, which makes them legitimate targets in a broader way than ordinary combatants who are bound and covered by the laws of war.
I don’t know if you grew up during the color coded terror threat level days, but after updating everyone on the days terrorism threat color, the nightly news anchors would share how many terrorists were killed in Afghanistan and Iraq.
Even as a kid, I thought to myself, “how is everyone killed by coalition forces a terrorist?”
Or, “why are car bombs that kill coalition forces in theatre, called terror attacks?”
News flash, governments and media label all sorts of organizations and actions terrorism, 90% of it is propaganda, or bullshit.
Otherwise, I guess that would mean Ukrainian forces fighting Russians are also terrorists, which is how the Russian government and media refers to them.
in the same way that all SS members are war criminals
That’s absolutely not how the nazis’ war crimes were handled post-war.
Only those with a direct active role and sufficient knowledge were charged in the post-war trials.
90+% of the SS members just went right back into their pre-war jobs.
(At least in the western part, the Soviets were much more…thorough in their de-nazification.)Also, a janitor in a civilian building will never be an active combatant by any stretch of international law, no matter which organisation they belong to.
In law, every SS member, without exception, was axiomatically classified as a war criminal, with membership being sufficient evidence in itself. Of course, the western allies were not above looking the other way if it potentially meant the difference between victory and defeat in the Cold War, but this was an informal policy imposed from high up.
Do the confederates next, they were back in power in 10 years and terrorizing black people with the KKK shortly after.
The people getting these communication devices aren’t exactly the kitchen personnel
True. Who would want a 9-year-old-girl as kitchen personnel?
Do you think Hezbollah gave her a pager? What was her father’s position within Hezbollah? Maybe he’s the one that fired some rockets that killed someone else’s kids recently
Customary international humanitarian law prohibits the use of booby traps – objects that civilians are likely to be attracted to or are associated with normal civilian daily use – precisely to avoid putting civilians at grave risk and produce the devastating scenes that continue to unfold across Lebanon today. The use of an explosive device whose exact location could not be reliably known would be unlawfully indiscriminate, using a means of attack that could not be directed at a specific military target and as a result would strike military targets and civilians without distinction. Human Rights Watch
Hezbollah are not civilians, but combatants. So this is legal under international law.
Feelings don’t care about the facts.
Whoosh
The pagers were very questionable. Even assuming ONLY hezbollah had the explosive pagers, they were still detonating in public since the point of a pager is to be able to carry it around.
Walkie talkie wise? I still need to reflexively condemn anything that kills children. But… that actually does seem super targeted and would presumably not be something a terrorist “should” carry around in public during their non-terrorist lives.
What do think about Hezbollah killing 11 Druze kids?
Mission :: Fail
We’ve seen targeted attacks before in Lebanon, and they can hit an individual target with a drone without any interference. A targeted attack kills and harms its target, and only it’s target. No one else.
Terrorists being terrorized until more terrorists can terrorize the terrorizers.
Bibi and co need the endless cycle of hate and violence to go on so he can rob his own with impunity.
It is the biggest “problem” of modern warfare. We don’t fight wars of conquest anymore because that tends to actually make other countries care (because those brown people have resources!). So we attack and then leave.
It is similar to why France and England (or China/Japan/Korea) were basically at continuous levels of war for hundreds (?) of years. Because when you roll up and kill a bunch of people and maybe steal a goat? The remaining people want revenge. When you conquer them and either ethnically cleanse them to nonexistence or integrate them into your society? They forget why they were angry after a generation or two.
I very much do NOT believe the world would be a better place with more ethnic cleansing and stealing of land. But we also are in a mess where retaliation between countries just continues with no real consequences to the people who are calling for the attacks. And the civilians just get rightfully angry when their kid is permanently blinded because she was looking the wrong way at the Lebanese equivalent of a Kroger.
And then you get the keyboard warriors who hop in decades (or even centuries) into the conflict, pick a side, and immediately say THESE terrorists are good guys and THOSE terrorists are bad guys.
You know whats even scarier? Out of the thousands of devices produced I bet none of them have gone through proper quality control and testing (because it requires documentation, which kind of goes against the whole “covert” thing), which means the failure rates are probably through the roof. This means that there are most likely dozens of unexploded devices still around filled with plastique. This means 2 things, 1st you essentially gave away military grade explosives to uncontrolled civilians which can be harnessed and reused for other malicious purposes, and 2nd if a media illiterate civilian doesn’t know to chuck their device in a tar pit, they will continue to walk around with an unexploded bomb strapped to their leg for a long time.
All in all, whoever came up with this Idea, should be gunned down in the streets like a dog. Or at least be prosecuted for every confirmed civilian death.
The Israelis are the world’s largest terrorists and the world’s largest cause of terrorism. I have had many ‘debates’ with zionists before getting permabanned off reddit who actually tried to frame Israel as a stabilizing force in the region where all the whining infantile Arabs can blame all their problems on (which they don’t and never did BTW) instead of tearing each other apart for land and on religious grounds (also bullshit).
I simply pointed out how absurd their beliefs are and how utterly baseless. As you would expect, they constantly shifted the goal posts in ways that revealed the sheer depth of ignorance that they had about anything.
I’ll agree with that only because the US cops aren’t using their military hardware yet. Give them time and they will start giving Israel pointers.
Israel has been the one giving pointers to the US police. They will never outdo the IDF.
All in all, whoever came up with this Idea, should be gunned down in the streets like a dog. Or at least be prosecuted for every confirmed civilian death.
Biden would personally strap a medal around their neck. As would Trump… and Harris
Unfortunately.
Don’t you think Hezbollah is going to do a little ‘recall’ on these products?
Honestly, it’s a pretty brilliant idea. It did what it was intended to do.
Murder civilians?
Kill, injure and seriously disrupt the communication of Hezbollah, no matter the consequences or civilian casualties. At least this time there was a tiny bit of military assassination type logic to it, and they weren’t just blatantly shooting civilians and bombing hospitals as they usually do, but they just had to trigger it during rush hour because of course they did.
Hezbollah is a legitimately elected party in Lebanon’s parliament. If this had been done by an Arab nation to a Western nation, it would be the end of the fucking world. October 7 all over again. Horrific terrorism.
But seriously, Imagine all of the members of the UK labor party being injured or killed by a coordinated attack like this. Do you think people would be talking about how cool it was then?
When Israel does it? “Self defense”
Oct 7th and Sept 11th all over again.
And hezbollah is a fuckload more restrained in how they target Israel with rockets than how Israel bombs Lebanon.
Hezbollah is a legitimately elected party in Lebanon’s parliament
“… and paramilitary group,[44][45] led since 1992 by its Secretary-General Hassan Nasrallah. Hezbollah’s paramilitary wing is the Jihad Council,[46] and its political wing is the Loyalty to the Resistance Bloc party in the Lebanese Parliament. Its armed strength was assessed to be equivalent to that of a medium-sized army in 2016.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hezbollah
What’s the armed strength of the UK labour party, just curious?
Militia not backed by a state are classified as unlawful combatants.
Oh so they aren’t backed by Iran now?
Hezbollah are a political party with a non-insignificant number of elected seats in Lebanon’s parliament.
This is like targeting every UK Labor MP, and successfully assassinating several of them. Wonder if people would be talking about how cool it was then…
Hezbollah paramilitary targeted by ISF black ops spooks is the same in your mind as a UK Labor MP being assassinated?🙄
Lots of British fascists would love to murder labor MPs, unfortunately.
which war crime is this
yes.
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As this story has developed it has become increasingly clear that this was a supply chain attack where explosives were inserted into the electronics
Wait what
The shit the Mossad comes up with and pulls off would be impressive if it weren’t to serve an appartheit State.
It also helps they can ignore the fallout from blowing up stuff with total disregard for international law or basic morals
The BBC reported it was a Taiwanese brand to let a Hungarian company manufacture them on their behalf. The pagers were brought to Lebanon 5 months ago. The Hungarian company has been around since about 2022.
For this to be a supply chain attack, the level of sophistication indicates Israeli intelligence was at this for years, from setting up a shell company, infiltrating manufacturing companies, etc. We don’t know whether the Taiwanese company was compromised as well.
Now this last part is a bit of a conspiracy theory, but it makes you wonder what the real reason the US banned Huawei. Could they have been approached as a potential manufacturer and they said no? The timeline certainly works.
Edit: BBC link
