You had me till the BuY AnOthER OnE, Pay me imaginary strawman. I do love bikes though, so do the fuckers that keep taking mine.
You have enough money for a pair of bolt cutters.
Yeah Yeah I do have some of those, where you parked again you say?
If you’re big enough, you just need money for a balaclava.
Hmmmm baklavas
I think the point was to contrast this with cars. Having your car stolen is 10x worse than having your bike stolen
10x? What car can be so cheap?
Ironically, a stole one
- kryptonite U-lock.
- locking skewers for the tires, gears, seat and handle bars.
- an ugly color
At this point, they’ll need an angle grinder to get anything valuable off the bike. It’s more expensive but so long its not the standard of ever biker, bike thieves’ll target easier bikes to steal off.
It’s true although it sucks. You could have several bikes stolen a year and it’s still cheaper than a car.
It’s, once again, comes with infrastructure. When I moved to Germany from the country with no bike infrastructure, I only thought of a bike as an expensive stuff, but here I bought a used commuter for 40 Euro and it’s fucking great. I love it, but if it gets stolen, I would be mildly frustrated and buy another one of those for 40 Euro the next day.
Think of it that way - whoever stole your bike was probably more happy to get it than you are sad to lose it. The total happiness in the world increased. So, whatever.
There it is.
The stupidest thing I’ll read all day.
And the sun’s not even up yet.
It’s a reference to this comic https://knowyourmeme.com/photos/1314087-my-bike-got-stolen-recently
Thank you; I had no idea.
I take it that the idea is that it’s supposed to be stupid?
I never know if the artist is serious or not.
With trains, you don’t arrive sweaty, you can’t get run down by cars, and someone else parks it
I ride a bike to work every day. I’m never sweaty. The infrastructure to cycle exists so I won’t get run over by cars.
Where I live I wouldn’t want to bike. Too many freaking hills
Where I live (Oklahoma City), I wouldn’t want to bike for at least 5 months of the year. Between mid April and late October, we are stupid hot and humid. We had lots of days this past summer that either got uncomfortably close to or passed 40°C. Dew points in the mid 20s all summer long. You’ll break a sweat just standing outside for more than about a minute or two.
Can’t imagine what it’s like for those sorry saps in Houston or Florida.
The comfortable temp for biking is significantly higher than it is for walking, especially with the right gear. 40°C is definitely beyond reasonable tho. Planting trees and decreasing the amount of asphalt would go a long way to make it a better proposition more of the year. A societal expectation that you don’t go or do anything when weather gets that hot could bridge the difference. Unfortunately that kind of philosophy is antithetical to capitalism’s demands for productivity.
I live in a somewhat hilly city. That is why I have an electric bike. I’m never sweaty when I arrive at work
Even if the city is flat as fuck you’ll still arrive sweaty if the climate is hot. Take Phoenix for example, you will sweat even if you are in the shade and doing no physical exercise because it’s commonly 46 degrees.
Phoenix is not a great example of how we should design cities. Putting a city in a desert is a bad idea from the outset.
The desert is the only reason it is habitable, if it were less arid the humidity would make it even worse. The largest desert on earth is Antarctica, deserts don’t have to be hot, just low precipitation.
But what deserts do very well is solar potential due to lack of cloud cover and I don’t know why we can’t use solar to power electric rail for public transportation.
I have an electric bike for the hills.
Where I used to work it was downhill all the way there and uphill all the way back stupid way round of having it don’t want to get to work early.
Hills are only the problem if you’re not biking regularly. I’m way out of shape, but after a year on living in a country with good infrastructure, hills aren’t a problem for me anymore, really. But first couple of months it was a bit brutal, for sure.
Where I live biking to work wouldn’t be popular because it’s too cold and Americans hate exercise
Biking in the cold and wet honestly isn’t that bad. Biking is my primary way of getting around all year in the PNW. When it gets real cold I put on normal snow gear. It definitely makes going outside more of a production tho.
A lot of it has more to do with what people are used to and feel is reasonable than with the actual conditions. If people saw more folks riding and actually knew people who rode I think people would be more open to try it.
Unmanaged ice/snow, unhealthy wet bulb temperatures, and getting run over due to car first infrastructure are the most significant barriers to more people using bikes as transportation IMO. If a society chooses to, all those things can be mitigated.
My favorite part of riding is that I get moderate physical activity for free. I would not spend near as much time being active otherwise.
Teach me the non-sweaty ways. I love my bike, but theres no way I can arrive not sweaty. Before you say go slow, I’m not letting no bus take my god-damn glory.
E bike.
Sure, but I assume the conversation was about mechanical bikes. Personally, for a PEV I would choose something lighter and cheaper and forego the pedalling altogether, but my commute is only about 7.5 km one way.
In Germany those are only allowed to assist you up to 25kph, which means they only help you going up hills, everywhere else will be the same amount of effort
30 in Canadaz that’s enough speed for commuting.
You just don’t treat it as a competition, but as a relaxed stroll. Don’t care about any buses, just vibe with the flow.
Thats the thing though, for me the flow to vibe with is some banger tunes and pedalling as hard as I can. 😅
An Ebike is extremely helpful, especially if there are hills. Wear a breathable long sleeve SPF shirt. I like hemp and some of the stuff Colombia makes. If your route is safe enough don’t wear a helmet. Shorts and sandals are also helpful. I’ve had some success with lightweight merino clothes as well but they tend to get holey in a few years of frequent use
When I biked to work there was a YMCA right next to my office, so I would ride in early, get in a workout and a shower at the Y and then walk two minutes to work. The only downsides were 1) getting chased by pitbulls and 2) having to look at fat old judges lounging around the locker room stark naked before starting their day of sending probably-innocent black men to prison for decades (both hazards of life in Louisiana).
Obviously I can shower at work but then I need to get in 15 minutes early and then I have to blow-dry my hair and it is just a whole thing now.
You might not see the above as a problem but for me, the problem is I can for the life of me not get up earlier than I have to, I am just not a morning person. If I can manage to brew a pot of coffee and have a quick breakfast before I have to get out the door, that is a successfull morning.
He’s sweaty…he’s the BO guy in his office.
No dude, two thirds of my office commutes in by bike. I’m just in decent shape and cycling at a reasonable pace doesn’t make me break a sweat. For most people in decent shape it doesn’t make you sweat more than walking.
Must be nice 🥲
It is.
and someone else parks it
And you don’t need to worry about driving
I love trains but they give me so much anxiety. I have stories of facing harassment on public transport. But it’s not just me though, here’s some idea of why public transport can suck for women or other people in case my anecdotes are just that: https://www.metro-magazine.com/10111994/sexual-crime-and-harassment-on-public-transportation-a-study
California had to make a law for race-based harassment, so it’s not just a one place or just sex-based harassment issue: https://19thnews.org/2023/02/california-introduces-bill-harassment-safety-public-transit-systems/
If public transport can come without being subjected to people and whatever miserable state of mind they’re in, I’d like that. I can at least escape a dumbass in my car, but in a train they’re either right in front of me or nearby for a long time. How do we fix this?
Public transport is clean and safe when everyone uses it. In the US, the social expectation is that public transportation is for the poor. Like white flight out of US urban centers in the 60s, it’s a class thing, and owning a car becomes a self perpetuating class signifier. In most of the rest of the developed world, like London, Paris, Tokyo, etc. public transportation is for everyone, rich and poor. It’s just a question of investing in and valuing public transportation over cars.
Hmm idk about cars as a class signifier, they’re like phones now, everyone has one. I don’t disagree with you about public transport being for everyone, but I am not sure that examples of harassment and human misery will necessarily decrease because richer people are forced to commute. See for example, the price-based communal vans in Asian countries. I think it makes sense to actively work on making public transit better, but that requires an open eyed approach to acknowledging existing problems. Nothing can have perfect solutions, but an attempt needs to be made to at least acknowledge the issue and provide a preliminary solution.
The reason you’re not afraid of being in public in any other circumstances are in public transportation is exactly, precisely because public transportation in US is shitty and stigmatized and the expectation is that only the poor are using it. This is the source of the problem, and the way to fix i is to improve it so everyone is using it, and the crowd in public transport will be the same as everywhere
The examples listed as better public transport still have the harassment and human misery issues. I don’t think it’s simply a matter of “get more people using it”. For one I think people who engage in harassment of any form should lose the privilege to use public transportation for a period of time, like we do with drunk drivers and their licenses. Or get them to go to classes like we do for road rage people. Maybe other countries are already doing this.
No, good public transportation will not eliminate all the misery in the people’s lives, but also it isn’t suppose to, and nothing will. Good public transportation however helps with making it the same level of misery as anywhere else, and usually even more. The particular issue of harassment isn’t an issue in a good public transportation, because there are people there, there are structures, there are authorities and systems that can help. And besides, it’s not like people just decide to harass other people the second they go into metro.
, because there are people there, there are structures, there are authorities and systems that can help.
Bystander effect is real, plenty of people have been harassed without the harasser facing any consequences. I think one improvement over our current system would be to disallow harassers the use of public transport for a period of time, or provide them with mental health help? I am not sure if it’s the best solution, but it’s kind of similar to what we do with people who drive drunk, or those who have to get anger management classes after road rage. Fines would also be a good idea.
An anecdote: there was a lady once on a subway platform who was yelling about colored people. She wasn’t bothering anyone in particular, though. There was at least one incident of someone stabbing and killing someone for defending minorities. These interactions are not safe for people and defenders alike. Moreover, you cannot react fast enough in some instances if someone wants to hurt you. For example, people have been pushed off train platforms. Regarding getting police help, if someone is walking around wearing a poster of “Christ hates gays” or something, the police might not do anything because of free speech laws (or because they agree sometimes).
These things are all kinda related, better housing policies lead to less homelessness and less instability, and therefore people with less mental issues. I don’t think simply having more efficient public transportation will make using public transport safer. Perfect solutions don’t exist, so at the very least I hope there are also anti-harassment policies like fines, losing privileges for a reasonable and proportionate amount of time, or having to take mandatory classes or providing mental health help for the harasser.
I want good public transportation as well, but for me the definition of good also includes having adequate safety measures.
That said, I really appreciate the passion some community members display for their topics of interest. What gets annoying for me though is what appears to be an utter lack of empathy or consideration for an alternative view. I think I am done, honestly—some people will think I am inconsiderate regardless of what I say. Whatever.
Here’s some news from places with great public transportation which supports my point that efficient does not equal safe:
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from Japan: https://tankenjapan.com/how-common-is-chikan-unwanted-touching-on-trains-in-japan/
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From 6 days ago: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c8829ked1x3o
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on buses, https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/publications-and-reports/bus-crime-statistics
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from Germany: https://www.thelocal.de/20230301/which-german-train-stations-have-the-highest-crime-rates
Note that I am not using one-off incidences as examples, but what you’d expect to be routine crime on a given day.
-
Wouldn’t it be great if we could each have our own private pods?
Yes actually, not sure if sarcastic.
Not sarcastic. It would be such a relief.
Only if you live at one train station and work at another.
You can also do this thing called walking. Although I am aware that in the United States that is considered suspicious behavior.
Im from europe, train stations here are a little more than walking distance apart.
The public transit isn’t that great where I live by European standards. I use a Brompton folding bike to make up the difference. It’s great for trains
This is my favorite argument from carfolk, because they’ll treat walking one block from a bus station as some cardinal sin but will happily walk four blocks from a parking spot.
Cities with transit typically have several different ways of getting around.
For my last job, som e choices were:
- express bus plus walk a couple blocks
- train and walk a mile
- train to subway and walk a couple blocks
- drive to subway and walk a couple blocks
- train to subway to another subway into basement of my building
I’m not even counting scooter and bike share but I chose each of these options depending g on what was best at the time. But my most common choice was the train and walk a mile. It was a bit of a walk but I didn’t have to deal with people or waiting and it was close enough. But maybe you prefer walking less or like the scooter or bike shares: great, make the choice that’s best for you
Edit to add: for those unfamiliar with transit - every place will be different but I paid a monthly train pass based on my distance from the city. That pass included unlimited express buses, and unlimited subway rides within the city. So much freedom and convenience! One monthly fee let me go anywhere in the city, so much cheaper and easier than dealing with a car!
It’s common to bus to the train station, and yes train stations downtown are where many people work.
The Japanese used bikes to defeat the British in Singapore. The Vietnamese used bikes to defeat the Americans in Vietnam. The Chinese used bikes to destroy manufacturing in the west.
I’ll be in the cold cold ground before I use some stupid commie machine powered by rice.
All other arguments for not using a bike are stupid.
Can’t tell if satire
Poe strikes again.
ITT: Carbrains
As soon as bicycles are mentioned, everyone suddenly has to transport their washing machine 200 miles in sub zero temperatures.
I think it’s more that when someone is suggesting something as a perfect thing, people naturally try to challenge that by finding faults in it.
It’s blindingly obvious cycling is not a panacea for all transport and no one is suggesting it is. Yet here they are, all pointing out what everyone knows in response to a statement that was never made.
It’s like you don’t read your peers comments. Yes, people argue this ALL THE TIME.
If I had a dime every time someone said oh just rent a truck when you need it making blind assumptions about my life and what I need, I could buy a bike with it.
Yes, people argue all the time and say exactly the same stupid things all the time and it gets really tedious.
I think you’re getting too upset about that. That’s just how people argue online.
Glad that my city has a cargo bike renting program for 10€/day or 25€/week up to 4 weeks (selection from 17: 15 electric, 2 acoustic)
I would take the acoustic, then I wouldn’t have to supply my own cards to put in the spokes every time!
Seriously though cargo bike rental sounds like a pipe dream, too bad they roads where I am wouldn’t be able to handle such a thing by design!
Every time someone mentions acoustic bikes I habe to laugh and it will still be as hilarius the next time.
Both directions and against 100 km/h headwinds
Really hurts I guess 🤷♂️
Turns out it’s not so perfect but bike nuts don’t fit everyone’s needs.
Screw that. I love paying for car insurance, gas, oil change, tires, and random bolts maintenance. There is also the thrill of driving in traffic, and dealing with road rage. There is plenty that makes the car the ideal transportation mode loved by the masses.
My personal favorite is how if someone bumps you and you get the smallest scratch or dent on your door, you now have to be late for whatever you were doing, pull over (impacting other traffic) exchange insurance info deal with possible hostility for that and ultimately have a crappy day because of it.
Don’t forget punished for literal years by your insurance company
How about the fact that cars are so complicated now that working on them yourself feels next to impossible but you also have to somehow find mechanics that you trust to fix your vehicle when you really have no objective way to know if the mechanics are just bullshitting you or are actually genuinely investigating the problem, not just tossing away what you are saying with a mental note that you are clueless. Fixing a bicycle on the other hand is almost comically simple in comparison.
Also can’t forget the thrill that it only takes a second or two of distraction at the wrong moment to kill yourself and other innocent people and irrevocably send your life down a worse path. To be clear, this experience is happening when you are tired, grumpy and stressed about getting to work or getting back from work. It’s a nice little detail that we aren’t all driving boats around or something where hitting other boats requires a bunch of really stupid choices chained together, all we have to do in a car is go slightly in the wrong direction for 3 seconds and boom just murdered somebodies kid.
Stay out of the road with the heavy machinery. Cars won. Get out of the way or get run over.
Every time I see this kind of post I just wish they would try to go to work in a +40 degree Celsius environment.
It must be nice to work in a place that won’t mind if you arrive drenched in sweat.
Edit: I love the hive mind
It would be one thing if all employers offered locker rooms and adequate time to get ready along with safe storage.
adequate time to get ready
But doesn’t that depend on you? If you arrive earlier you have more time
I don’t get paid to arrive earlier, so it’s gonna depend on them for me dawg
I would’ve figured work starts once you’re ready for work. If that includes showering and you need more time for that, you should come earlier so you can shower.
To me it’s no different from taking the time to shower at home. You can sleep later if you don’t shower but I take the time. No pay for that though.
While I was mostly joking with my comment and the context of having to bike to work in a hot climate.
I agree with you initially, that works starts when you’re ready to work. I think that definition of ready is a little subjective.
As far as I’m concerned the moment I deviate from my normal non-working behavior is when I am starting work.
Realistically I feel that begins at the commute to work for me, I have some personal bias here since I have an hour long commute when I do. I work from home a lot of the time, so again that also skews my perception of when I “start” work.
There is a way to get all of this and more
It must be nice to work in a place that won’t mind if you arrive drenched in sweat.
coughs nervously in works-from-home
But yeah, it’s more weather dependent for sure
Remote jobs are unironically super good for environment, aside from all other amazing advantages they offer.
BuT WhAt aBoUt cOlLaBoRaTiOn? - some boomer executive somewhere
Tbf you could just take a shower at workplace after the commute, assuming you have showers at work.
How many people actually have showers in their workplace?
Probably more if cities were designed around bicycles in the way they currently are around cars.
Where I live, more and more. For this specific reason.
+the fact that some other people do Real Work^TM where you get dirty and shit and need to have shower before going home. Factories and shit.
Do factories have showers where you are? We’re expected to shower when we get home
Some factories are required to have at least emergency shower. Not that you want to take shower there regularly.
Well yeah though I don’t to much of that, so the workplaces I know have them because of bikes.
I think even at the smallest company I’ve worked at, there was a shower in the building that people working at the companies there could use. First time I’ve really thought about it, but I guess it would be odd if a place didn’t have at least one shower somewhere for the cyclists and runners. (I’m working in a British city for context)
No idea, every place I’ve worked in at least.
Pretty common to have at least one where I live, but it depends on which sector you work in for sure.
A lot
How many people actually have car storage(called parking spot by some idiot, although there are no trees) in their workplace?
Here in Palestine people drive bikes the most in the hottest city, Jericho. It reaches 40 degrees there. An ebike would make you get less hot from exertion. In combination with good urban planning with small streets and trees and buildings creating lots of shade it’s workable. It’s not sustainable to have air conditioned cars transport people everywhere. This is what living in a hot climate means.
But Texas exceptionalism!
Honestly, no matter the mode of transportation, I’d arrive drenched in sweat in a 40° environment.
I would probably not even step outside unless absolutely necessary. At that temperature I would already suffer indoors, and if I stepped out I’d faint if I stayed out there for longer than thirty minutes.
Where do you live that it’s 40+ degrees at ~8am in the morning, the entire year round?
Or could you simply be looking for an excuse?
Australia
Also Brazil
Edit: not to mention the flash-flooding thunderstorms, tree-shattering winds, and so, so many hills.
Most tropical/subtropical areas will have a heat index in this range for the majority of the year thanks to humidity.
I live in Florida and maybe for two months of the year I could cycle around without getting soaked, either by rain or humidity.
I do cycle around for fun though.
So let’s build more urban heat islands and parking lots. Exactly what a +40 C environment needs. Biking might be unpleasant in 40 C weather, and the cyclist might get a bit sweaty, but all of the positives are true. And cars are just going to make the planet hotter.
Or underdeveloped infrastructure that forces you to bike on the road. There’s this road near my house thats like a quarter mile long and its 40mph and people usually speed up to 65mph.
Trying to get to work on my bike with that is fucking suicide, and my work is only a mile away.
Even walking is excrutiating. The weather is very cold, which is fine since it’s only a mile, but the busy roads you need to cross make you wait so damn much. Waiting for the signal to walk is about 5 minutes. There are 5 busy crosswalks that turn my 10 minute walk into a 35 minute walk in the freezing fucking cold.
Yeah you could jaywalk but you can be arrested and trying to jaywalk a road with cars going 60 is like Russian roulette.
Yeah you could jaywalk but you can be arrested
How?
and trying to jaywalk a road with cars going 60 is like Russian roulette.
So, 60 units of imperialism is about 96 units of true freedom. How the fuck your city allows it?
In most places jaywalking is a civil infraction resulting in only a fine (I can impede traffic and increase potential for injuries). In those places you cant be arrested.
In others you can be arrested then charged with criminal misdemeanor. If very serious (not sure what defines that) you can also get a felony.
Either way it’s punishable, and I don’t want to do that when most of the crosses are within line of sight of the local police station.
About that road Im not really sure why the limit is specifically 40, since roads that cross it are 20, and also that it has no sidewalk but leads to residential areas. You can’t even walk on the grass there’s a bridge that forces you onto the road.
There is another road but it’s half a mile longer (1.1km) and also it has the busiest street near my house. I swear to god the pedestrian walk lights are broken because I sat my freezing ass next to that damn thing for 20 minutes before just jaywalking anyways (also scared cause that roads also a 40mph).
I really wish I could walk, for my health for the environment but ironic as it would be I’m not gonna die for my health lol.
Have you considered, that different places need different infrastructure?
I might also remark, that your houses are utterly unprepared for the -5C where I’m at currently, but that would be stupid.
+40? I wonder why…
While taking your kid on a 10km detour to the only child care center thats anywhere near your home or work that has availability. And dont forget to swing by the shops and grab milk on the way home.
Sounds like a purposeful car dependent design
That’s an urban planning problem. My dad’s detour to drop me off at daycare when I was little was a 10 minute bike ride. When I was old enough to go to school, there was no detour because it was on the way to his work. Shops are also on the way or at most a 5 minute detour.
While taking your kid on a 10km detour to the only child care center thats anywhere near your home or work that has availability.
Imagine living in ex-USSR country. Daycares everywhere.
Sounds like you live in a car dependent city. Imagine if it were built for walking or biking. Everything you need within 15 minutes walking rather than 15 minutes driving. Just try imagining it.
Distance. An hour commute or a 20 minute trip to the grocery store. We killed walkable neighborhoods so now here we are. Trapped.
But we can’t have 15 minute cities because…that’s tyranny somehow?
Too much democracy! Tyranny of the majority!
15 minute cities are about as organic as “two weeks to flatten the curve”. There’s a reason they don’t exist, it’s not a practical idea. Just like every other idea children come up with.
Yeah, except all of those old European cities and newer Soviet built ones had (and in most cases still have) everything close to 15 minutes away.
Nice bait.
That used to be the model. Go look at old pictures. Those people were not walking hours to get groceries.
Correct, they’d use a horse or a mule. Cars are an improved horse. Walking and biking are hobbies at best.
15 minute cities do exist, just not in the US. Admittedly, the concept doesn’t always work for work related commutes, because some businesses just need lots of infrastructure away from residential areas. But there are plenty of cities where grocery stores, gyms, restaurants, doctors etc. are within biking or walking distance.
Start yelling at your city legislators then. Force them to change how the city zones so things are closer together. It will take a couple decades of work, but you have to be apart of that change for it to happen.
A car cuck utopia
You can do what I did and move to another country. It just takes a lot of time, work, and money to get there (though money can accelerate the former two, in some cases).
I’d love to. And the brain drain is already beginning. College is cheaper and just as good over seas. That’s always the first stage because you never get all the kids back.
Open your own grocery store. Or allow others to do so.
I would if I could. But I can’t beat Walmart prices an hour away on Transit.
That’s why you don’t see 15 minute cities anymore. Capitalism already figured out that a few large stores allow you to hire more efficient numbers of employees, buy more for less, stock better variety, pass along some of the savings to customers and still make more profit than building lots and lots of repeated commercial infrastructure throughout residential areas. A return to that model would require more employees in low paying service jobs, and would sacrifice lower prices and better variety. Ironically, it would be far faster to use a car to skip from store to store to look for the best deals and the specific brands you want. I suppose we could also get rid of capitalism at the same time, but I’m not holding my breath. As much as I like the idea of walkable infrastructure, it comes at a cost that I am not sure many would be willing to pay.
It’s very weird that it works all over Europe, but for some reason it’s too expansive for America. It’s almost like it’s not an inevitable course of actions really actually.
Bruh I live 26 miles from where I work by car, and 21 miles by biking per Google Maps. And most of it is highway travel. It would make my commute over 1.5 hrs.
It is the dream if/when we can move closer though.
if entire cities were designed around these the way they are with cars, everyone would be fine with it and you would live less than 6 miles from where you work.
Public Transport
EDIT: looking back it seems I replied to wrong comment
**
Indeed. Maybe not even me.
But there is plenty of way to work from more remote or rural area. I could list some if you feel like reading a bit longer.
As for people who live very far from any human, why do that if it is to drive hours and hours a day into busier area?
You may live in a place that is the result of building car dependent infrastructure. To achieve a “bike city” op is describing, it would take decades, if not a century in your area for it to make sense to just bike everywhere. It takes time.
That’s why you start small, and work up incrementally. Bike lanes are the first step: just make it possible. Next is paths that cut across town to allow bikes (and pedestrians) to avoid roads altogether. Just put them in wherever you can. Eventually you can start connecting them, and gradually it starts to make sense to say “let’s just walk there” or “I’ll meet you there on my bike.”
It’s literally just paint and gravel, and micro zoning. But it helps every step of the way, and it adds up quickly.
Oh it is. It’s exploded like CRAZY in the past 10 years and it just keeps expanding outward instead of upward. City planners definitely designed this place to be the epitome of “urban sprawl”.
For real though, if I had it my way, we’d live within 5-8 miles of where I work and I’d bike every day it wasn’t raining.
Next duty station though! We’re gonna buy/rent closer to the base, wherever that is!
An excellent bike city is a long process but there’s a lot of simple stuff that could help folks cut down on car trips. Imminent domain a few side yards and put in walking and bike paths to make neighborhoods more walkable. Knock down some houses to put in corner stores with apartments on top. If you build dedicated bus lanes, light rail, and bicycle paths you’re on a road to a safer and more connected city.
Already fairly interesting how you can still manage to save five miles by bike in a system designed for cars.
Biking would add two miles onto my commute.
That’s more like it.
Mine would be identical because its just the same roads.
Since we’re just sharing anecdotes: I save some time when commuting to my gym, because there’s a path through a bunch of greenery in some public back lot community…greenery area type…thing. Anyway, it’s nice, and the city just put it up a few years ago! I didn’t care at first, but now I take it several times a week.
Also driving a car to the gym only to get on a stationary bike or treadmill there just feels hilariously braindead to me.
Bikes + Metro would be the ideal
But that would require politicians who aren’t in the pockets of oil billionaires
Space. Scooters + Metro.
Please. Skate shoes + metro.
Meh
Yeah but the hypothetical is if there was better biking infrastructure and I suppose that would include not expecting people to travel so far to work.
Again if it was better public transport infrastructure you could take public transit and wouldn’t need the car the problem is that these improvements have never been made.
Well yeah that’s for a big ol artery - that’s never going away, but within-region is different.
Like I’m not going to take a bike to go visit my brother in the town over. That’s just not appropriate use of the tech
No need for parking
Yeah, just look how Nederlands or Belgium looks like xD
Rookie numbers.
Have you ever seen a walmart parking lot in person? You can fit the Netherlands and part of Belgium in one.
I’m Dutch and live rural. Used to cycle to school daily, 22km per day.
Never again. I need a car for work as I visit clients alot. I think cities could use bike friendly environments, like we have. But rural, no way. Good luck cycling 2 hours to get somewhere decent if you can drive that in half an hour.
It simply costs too much time, and with the amount of wind and rainfall we had past year is absolutely no fun.
Yeah, rural areas will pretty much always need cars or something similar - not just for traversing the massive gaps between places, but also because most rural homes are their own logistics for most things.
It also doesn’t help that this conversation itself is a pretty America-centric one. In the US and Canada, dense urbanism does not exist outside of major cities. NotJustBikes on YouTube has many videos talking about just how car-centric and space-inefficient it is here.
We have some big parking areas and garages specifically for bikes, especially at train stations, schools, city centres, etc. But at home, you don’t need a lot of parking space
At least in Finland apartment buildings have “parking” for bikes in the sense that there’s bike racks in front of staircases and usually a storage room specifically for bikes. “No need for parking” seems incorrect, even though it takes much, much less space than cars
Pretty much no one parks their bikes inside in the Nerherlands, I’m guessing that’s a climate thing. It takes like half a square meter outside.
The indoors bike storage room is for winter (and other longer term) storage so you don’t have to leave them out in the elements and don’t have to bring them inside the apartment either. It can be handy.
It takes like half a square meter outside
It does add up in bigger apartment buildings. Nothing compared to cars but if you don’t factor it in during construction it can be annoying as shit.
Now imagine if all those bikes were cars.
(You definitely do need bike-specific parking when you get to those numbers though. And other good infrastructure, though it’s rather the other way around: you need the good infrastructure to get to those numbers.)
All I’m saying is nobody ever got a great ass because they drove a car a lot.
Or erectile dysfunction for that matter.
The opposite of that, actually, prolonged sitting on your ass without much movement linked to all sorts of problems down there
Moved to the suburbs in my 30s. Got a new bike to hit the nearby bike trails. First bike ride turns into agonizing ordeal as it literally feels like someone ripped open my knees and poured broken glass in them. Diagnosed with arthritis in my knees.
There are plenty of reasons people don’t use bikes, and health reasons are one of the main ones.
"Cars are freedom! *
Except for the monthly finance payment, the legal obligation to insurance companies, the dependance on oil companies, etc"
I would love it if my city had bike only days. Or at least specific bike route that do not allow cars.
I don’t live in the us and there is a major road in my city that has a bike lane, but they just split one of the car lanes so there is a bike lane, half a lane for a car, and a full lane.
So cars have no choice but to drive in the bike lane. It’s also between the cars and a place with tons of right turns.
In addition to this, the city has some of the worst traffic in the world short distances can take hours. But it’s too dangerous to ride a bike.
but they just split one of the car lanes so there is a bike lane, half a lane for a car, and a full lane.
This is brilliant. Imagine their surprise when cars did not shrink to accommodate the change.
Yeah! I just started driving in the country and stuff like that’s been really confusing for me. I feel bad, but there really is nowhere else to drive and merging is really hard due to all the motorcycles swerving around.
IIRC Bogotá did this and might still do it. They were called cyclovias or something similar
I live in the hills. bikes are a pain in the dick over here :(
Cars were, and to some extent, still are, a statement of wealth. Having a “horseless carriage” back when personal vehicles were called that, was an easy way to distinguish that you were a successful person. As time went on, this transformed into having the latest vehicle or vehicles of a specific brand or type, or that cost x amount of dollars… Many of these points are still true today, unfortunately.
Because of the status you would demonstrate having a vehicle, demand for infrastructure from the affluent persons that owned these vehicles, most cities were built with space in mind so their richest could enjoy their personal vehicles as optimally as they could. As time went on, and more people bought cars due to the ease of transport they provided, that infrastructure demand only increased.
Specifically in America, further pressure was given to state and local governments by automobile manufacturers to build better and better roads to more places so more people would have access to roads and therefore see value in owning a personal vehicle.
Then there’s the interstate. Again, specifically talking about the states here, mostly… The Interstate systems were desired by the auto makers and people, but we’re not strictly required. AFAIK the largest push for interstate freeways came from the military, so they could rapidly move equipment from one location to another. This is why interstates are so built up; if you compare the underlying structure of most roads with what’s done for interstate freeways, the difference, at least, historically, is quite significant. The interstate was designed to have a batallion of tanks roll from place to place, something that would utterly destroy most roadways. Of course they can also move other equipment on it, since the majority of the remainder of what they would need to move is less damaging to the road than tanks… Like planes. Many interstates are designed, on purpose, to act as impromptu runways to land or take off from. This enables the military to set up shop pretty much anywhere they need to, in order to defend the land.
The existence of the interstate only drove (no pun intended) more people to want and buy cars. Further compounding the problem.
Now, many years later, city streets are generally not built for you. They’re not built with regular human lives in mind. They’re built to act as conduits for emergencies so personnel or equipment can move from place to place with ease and relative speed. Public emergency services (police, ambulance, fire) are all geared around the existence of roads for transit. Because of this and a multitude of other, somewhat less notable reasons, roads continue to be a fixture in most cities and urban areas.
Another stupid (mostly American) reason is how far away everything is. The reason everything is so distant is a simple explanation: zoning. Commercial and residential zoning created problems where getting a plot of land re-zoned to build a strip mall or plaza is challenging at best. So since you live in a residential zone, all the commercial zoned services that you use, must be on different land in different areas. The nice thing about this is that residential zones tend to be much quieter than commercial most of the time, so homes can sit in quiet area while all the hustle and bustle of the city stays separate. This has somewhat changed on recent times but it still exists as a significant issue. Since zones of residential and commercial are generally not very small, unless you live at the edge of a residential zone that borders a commercial zone, essential services like grocery stores and shops are generally a significant distance away. Owning a vehicle and road infrastructure makes this a minor inconvenience at most, unfortunately it also makes this a major inconvenience for anyone who does not (thus driving sales of personal vehicles, again, compounding the problem). Again, in recent years, maybe the last 20-30, this has been changing, and we’re starting to see, at least in large Metro areas, the rise of condos. Usually intermixed with commercial areas, it’s a home you can buy that is surrounded by commercial services within walking distance (copy/paste for apartments).
Unfortunately, due to the military and historical reasons, as well as continued demand for roads from people living in residential zones that are further away, roads are and continue to be built, and maintained, in cities.
If you look “across the pond” to Europe, there are many examples of cities that existed long before zoning was even considered and where automobiles didn’t exist that are very convenient to bike or walk through. Homes are intermixed with shops, and generally living in the city, while a bit more noisy than a residential zone, is otherwise very convenient for walking and cycling where you need to go. Mainly because cars were not a consideration at the time that those cities were constructed. Walking was common and cycling was not unusual, so the infrastructure reflects that.
We’re seeing a resurgence of this kind of anti-vehicle infrastructure thinking among people, and with the rising costs of everyday living and the expense that vehicles can incur, both in operating them, storing them and maintaining them, it’s easy to see why, especially when housing, in the form of apartments and condos, is getting closer to the commercial services that people want and use. However there seems to be a growing animosity among those that want more walkable and cycling friendly cities, with their car-driving counterparts.
I’m impartial. I own a car and live in a rural area, so I need one to get pretty much anywhere. My situation is not that of a city dweller and I see the merit in the walkable city. At the same time, I see the merit in drivable cities too. I wouldn’t mind driving to a parking structure and taking a bus/subway/bike/whatever to get into any major city, since I do so very rarely. But I can’t deny the convenience of driving into a city and parking less than a block away from my destination. Both arguments have merit and ultimately, I don’t really have any “skin in the game” (so to speak), so what happens shouldn’t be up to me, and cities should sort that out among their populous. I just know way too much about the issue, so I decided to comment. Sorry for the wall of text.
