• OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml
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      20 days ago

      if you choose not to, you will decrease their chances

      False. If you chose not to, the chances remain the same.

      • Communist
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        20 days ago

        Yes, the same, which is WORSE for the candidate you prefer.

        • OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml
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          20 days ago

          No, the same which is the same for the candidate you prefer. The chances only change if you vote for them or for their opponent. It is objectively, mathematically false to say that the chances change when you do nothing, it’s not even a coherent statement, doing nothing by definition changes nothing.

          • Communist
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            20 days ago

            and the same is a lower chance for the candidate you prefer than if you had voted for them.

            How are you confused by this???

            if you vote for kamala

            +1 chance for kamala

            if you do not vote

            +0 chance for kamala

            If trump is an option, and you didn’t increase the chance for kamala, you have increased the chance for trump

            • OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml
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              20 days ago

              Than if you had voted for them. You didn’t say that before. When you don’t specify that, the statement is false.

              Relative to a baseline of starting nuclear war, I stopped a nuclear war today. That doesn’t mean that I actually stopped a nuclear war in an absolute sense, or relative to doing nothing. If I went around telling people I stopped a nuclear war, I’d be lying. In the same way, it’s false to say that not voting is “helping” Trump, unless you specify that you mean relative to doing something that hurts Trump.

              If trump is an option, and you didn’t increase the chance for kamala, you have increased the chance for trump

              For example, this is false.

              if you do not vote

              +0 chance for kamala

              There you go, you just said it yourself. Neither an increase nor a decrease.

              • Communist
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                20 days ago

                Neither an increase nor a decrease.

                how do you not understand that neither an increase or a decrease, when there are two choices, is equivalent to a neutral vote, and therefore you are increasing the odds of the side that you don’t want to win, than if you had voted for the side you do want to win.

                How is this so complex for you? I am genuinely baffled.

                • OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml
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                  20 days ago

                  It’s not at all complex, and I am not confused by it. You are just obviously and objectively wrong.

                  than if you had voted for the side you do want to win.

                  Of course, as long as you specify that, then you are correct. In the same way it’s correct to say that I stopped a nuclear war today compared to if I had started one. But it is incorrect to say that I stopped a nuclear war with no disclaimer about what I’m comparing it to, and it is incorrect for you to claim that I’m helping Trump by not voting for Kamala with no disclaimer about where you are setting the baseline.

                  In an objective sense, I am not helping Trump. I am only helping him relative to if I were going to vote for Kamala (which I wasn’t).

                  It would be much clearer to simply say, “You are failing to take an opportunity to increase Kamala’s chances and decrease Trump’s,” which is 100% true. But you can’t accept that, because that’s using language in a way that’s actually fair and accurate. Instead, you’d rather make the dishonest, false accusation that I’m not merely failing to hurt Trump, but actively helping him. And then you call me names and say I’m “confused” and too dumb to understand when I call out your dishonesty and manipulative use of language.

                  • Rhoeri@lemmy.world
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                    19 days ago

                    and I am not confused by it.

                    NARRATOR: They were incredibly confused by it.

                  • Communist
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                    19 days ago

                    You are failing to take an opportunity to increase Kamala’s chances and decrease Trump’s

                    that is literally the exact same thing. By not increasing kamalas chances, you have increased trumps chances.

                    I do not understand how you are confused by this. At this point I have to just accept that there is just something wrong with your brain.