When I lived in India, I never voted, never felt like voting either because the options were far right corrupt goons or center right corrupt goons. And I believe it’s the same in US.
Now that I live in the Netherlands, I can vote for SP or Pirate Party or PvdA or Green Left. I actually have parties with whom my ideologies align and I can vote for what I feel. And I already did once.
The debate isn’t as black and white. In a system where electoral systems are relevant and reflect your beliefs sure go ahead and vote. But in places where this isn’t the case, I don’t see how voting is useful or fulfilling.
I don’t see much word about it so I’ll say: “Vote in primaries!” That way when the national elections show up, you’re not stuck with John Fascist and Jane Corporate. Don’t just wait for the big ones; vote for each election you can to make your voice fully heard.
Not to mention that there are more than one race in the ballot. Mine not only has state and county elections, but also municipal propositions.
Thank you, Serbia
Thank you, terror
Thank you, disillusionment!
yea vote but don’t imagine that beat fascism. serbia and the rest of the world has a lot to achieve for the system to fully change
I would like to remind you the students got sound weapon’d, and there was an undertone of potential violence.
Also, our election system still was working, so not riggable.
There’s a reason why the founders of America excplicitly said that revolution not done peacefully, must be done through force. They knew, no matter how vague, just what sort of calamity was coming, because such things had struck every kingdom and nation before the US.
Unfortunately I don’t think America is really ready for a revolution and I also believe we’re still at a point where voting can genuinely make change.
Half the reason any of this shit is happening is because a black guy got elected president and then a bunch of women, and even some not white people too
The response has been this. It’s fear with a facade of power that you’re seeing.
If you’re trying to get rid of Walmarts in your neighbourhood then I think one of those options is much more effective.
I’m just saying, we have the power to start helping economically and socially oppressed people without relying on the government. I’m not asking you to firebomb a Walmart, I’m asking you to hide undocumented immigrants in your house or help them obtain firearms illegally if they require so they can start a militia, those crimes.
and then doesn’t hide undocumented immigrants in your house or help them obtain firearms illegally if they require so they can start a militia.
If you are hiding undocumented immigrants in your house or helping them illegally obtain firearms, please for the love of god don’t post about it on a public forum.
'Cause I literally cannot do those things because I’m about to be homeless. I have no income and cannot get a job because I’m too autistic and too trans and too traumatized for one. So I’m on a timer until my conservative abusive parents decide to rid of me (and they have threatened it multiple times). I rely on them for my survival, currently. I have type one diabetes, so it is likely if I am evicted that I will die shortly after from being unable to have access to insulin or other diabetes supplies reliably.
A friend bought be one vial of estradiol enanthate online through crypto and shipped it to me, so that’s nice, not much, but this is what I’m talking about.
Idk, this kinda stuff is like for working class people. My class is probably lumpenproletariat, I don’t have the resources to do much.
it honestly feels like a psyop at this point. in russia there was a particular focus on making people “apolitical”, which is a different direction but still was focused on reducing opposition turnout.
Read Aleksandr Dugin book and it all makes sense. It’s part of the geopolitical playbook.
Sowing Social Division: The book explicitly directs Russian operatives to introduce “geopolitical disorder” inside the U.S. by fueling racial, social, and religious polarization.
Exploiting the Democratic Process: While it doesn’t give a step-by-step guide to voter suppression, it encourages the promotion of isolationist and extremist political groups to break down faith in public institutions, media, and the democratic process itself.
I think Dugin gets too much credit, here’s a pretty good write-up from an outsider’s perspective. As a Russian, I think it’s one of the most accurate description of what’s been going on.
People on twitter be like “you think we need to change the system? That pales in effectiveness to my strategy, helping neoliberalis win elections” and then not win elections
Its a train heading for the cliff not a bus. Should still vote though.
Even if you don’t think voting will fix everything, just remember that it won’t -hurt- anything. Just vote.
Alright, then, we should vote for a socialist party, at least in local elections.
Go for it! Make your voice heard.
People voted for the democrats. The democrats did a genocide.
Voting can’t hurt!
Alright I guess Im gonna vote for Trump since it cant hurt.
edit: why are you downvoting me? I thought voting couldnt hurt
Vote for me instead. Why choose the lesser evil?
Alright, can’t hurt.
The eternal science of BadEmpanadaism Marxism Leninism Maoism Online-Trollism.
Slammer tier meme
If you are slammer then you have to tell me
I prefer not to answer.
I, too, remember when biden winning in 2020 ended trump and fascism.
Thankfully we only live four to eight years at a time so I have no idea what you’re talking about. This problem will go away completely if we elect John democrat.
Unjerk: voting for harm reduction and local elections is important but don’t stop there. Join a mutual aid group, attend local meetings if you can and care for your neighbors.
Yeah I think that’s what makes people so annoyed about the energy put towards voting. Like I don’t care if you vote. I’m not gonna. But do whatever. But I wish like 25% of the energy people put toward voting also went towards any of that other stuff. So it does annoy me a bit seeing all the vote blue no matter who stuff. Because I know they’re gonna go vote and pat themselves on the back and call it a day the vast majority of the time.
errrm it didnt end it so it’s ineffective
alr bud
Image says the answer to the question “when did voting last end an authoritarian regime” is “two days ago”. I’m just pointing out that it didn’t end it. You added the “ineffective” part.
To be fair, it won’t be a full blown dictatorship until he takes a third term by force. Until then it’s just sparkling tyranny.
“Dictatorship” is not just a synonym for any unelected leader. Begging you people to learn what the words you use mean
Dictators can still be voted for, and many of them are through highly rigged elections. A burecrat is someone who’s appointed to a position of power, which’d be closer in alignment with that definition. Really I don’t think either term would apply here in good faith.
Oligarch is right there, but these people wanna misuse every term they hear.
There’s also plenty of people put in positions of power that aren’t classified as bureaucrats (like the Catholic clergy, a bunch of different regional administrators of the byzantine, latin and SEA Empires)
Begging you motherfuckers to read Lenin and Rosa Luxembourg if you’re going to try to speak on the critiques of bourgeois dictatorship.
Voting in and of itself is completely pointless. What happened in Serbia happened because of a principled political movement, pursuing the betterment of conditions under a wellorganised structure capable of agitating for clear goals. Under such circumstances voting is a useful tool to build upon momentum and further approach wielding state power.
Saying “voting ended the regime” is like saying “voting killed the Tzar” or “voting instituted the civil Rights Act” or “voting decapitated Louis XVI” or “voting enacted womens suffrage”.
To make it more absurd it is like looking at a holiday feast and then declaring it is there because you put a nice tablecloth on the table.Also
Well said. Now instead of authoritarian neoliberalism they may get progressive neoliberalism for example. Just a different form of suffering. It solved a little.
Authoritarian is a nothing word describing every state and almost every organisation.
Neoliberalism is impossible without the enforcement of the state, thus there is no variant of neoliberalism that is not authoritarian.
Yes. It merely emphasizes that in a progressive vs “authoritarian” the state shifts to more executive power and kills off minority rights and such. Both are authoritarian by nature. Should find a different phrase maybe.
Consider the term “pinkwashing”, since a “progressive” neoliberal is just as willing to target minorities, if it is politically or economically expedient
Sure thing, 2 month old .ml account.
Ad hominem
Finally, we are aknowledged for our contribution to the world.
Now back to dennying warcrimes, and talking about how we actually built the piramids.
Oh yea and also, I voted them in, so if they suck, I’m doing something about it.
If somebody tells you not to vote, they’re voting for the other guy.
Sometimes they are just dumb. Yes, that dumb. They exist, they have communities on reddit and they ban you if you dare argue against their logic.
There’s communities here that ban you for arguing to vote too lol. I’d argue that’s far more common in lefty spaces than liberal ones.
Fortunately I haven’t seen those yet, maybe defederated?
They exist. I’ve seen arguments that voting is actually worse than not voting, regardless of who it is for.
I believe you, it’s not that far off from what some argue in popular communities. I even believe they think they are right. Crazy world.
It’s imaginary like the power of voting.
squints eyes
Because there are massive groups of people on the internet with vested interests in convincing you not to vote (because it helps their allies win).
And ten times as many bots that are doing the same.
Brazil is hanging in there as well. By a thread, but it’s still…
Fuck yeah. ✊🏼
This is basically why I’m cynical about voting. People will post stuff like this and ignore the 2+ years of street action that got them there.
AKA. I would be a lot more confident going into these USA midterms if my fellow Americans had been going on rowdy strikes the last two years.
Maybe, but people will post stuff about not voting and then also not do 2+ years of street action. So by your logic we should also be cynical about non-voting.
In fact, more people don’t vote than vote, or especially that vote for the person that would do the least amount of harm, so again by your logic it’s even more on the shoulders of non-voters to change something.
But voting doesn’t counter the street action, it’s not a zero sum game. At the very least people should vote for the right people, even if that’s all they do. And if they wanna do more, like protest, then that’s great because it’s really needed. But in the end I’m of the opinion that you can’t complain about how bad it is and then refuse to vote. If you vote and then your candidate is shit, you have a reason to complain. If you vote and it turns out they meddled with it, then you can complain. And obviously you can also complain if half of the country voted for some douchebag. But people who encourage not voting are actively lowering the chances of the right people to win, even in a system where the vote is rigged. The more people vote for change, the harder it is to cover up
I have one occasion I did not vote and got to complain: I was out of state and my absentee conveniently arrived the day after the election. I ain’t got proof of fuckery but I’m sure it happened
But voting doesn’t counter the street action
it does suck the energy out of street action. every time someone is out door-knocking or phone banking, they’re not organizing non-electoral resistance.
So on voting day you vote, takes like 10 minutes maybe then you’re free to carry on with whatever else. It’s an easy activity that has no downside and you can still do the other things.
Non-electoral resistance usually requires a higher risk tolerance from the individual engaging in it, so not everyone doing door knocking or phone banking would be willing to do what you are thinking anyway.
food-not-bombs, skill-shares, and other community-building is an important facet of resistance, and takes essentially no risk tolerance at all. but every time you grab a clipboard and start collecting signatures, you’re not spending the time building community.
I’ve done both. I don’t think local community building is worthless, it can be potent, but it really depends on what region we are talking and it requires you to stick around to build rapport. There are some places where its just a cultural wasteland of ignorant chuds and rightwing nutcases. And it only has of course a local impact. Its not on par with the importance of national politics.
As someone who essentially grew up lacking roots in any particular place and doesn’t care for much of the people in my local area it also isn’t really something I care to engage with anymore.
Other than the fact that I already work for a small local non-profit, though I’ve been seeking to get out of it as soon as possible as I kind of just don’t believe in it as fully anymore after 2024. Private sector pays a lot better anyway. I’m going to start working for me, not a local community that seems to think I’m some kind of Leftist Autistic LGBT freak.
this wasn’t an indictment of you, personally. i’m indicting the energy-sink that is electoral politics. all that energy, just to lose half the time and have to build a new campaign for a new candidate every 2 or 4 years could be spent building something that actually helps us resist our oppression.
additionally what HalfSalesman@lemmy.world fails to realize is electoral compaigning isnt perfectly safe either, theres recent precedent of a politician putting up campaign signs being sexually assaulted. of political opponents being raided. of voters for whatever opposition party having their name and location information recorded if not openly accessible online for targeting. putting your name on a clipboard is insecure and opens you up to harmful actors, both those who scam you for your time and money and those who hate you because you voted “the other guy”. meanwhile you dont have to put down any name or even have people know who you are for things like FnB, skill shares, mutual aid, etc. and the whole goal of other things like direct action often times is to never even be seen or noticed.
This
I don’t think they are ignoring it. This is a direct response to the people saying voting is pointless. Sure, the years of street action are important but if people didn’t vote then it would just be noise.
And yet it was the voting that worked, not the street action. Strikes, rallies, and everything else like them primarily produce change by convincing people to vote. And for that reason, they are important! Doing those is great, but doing those and not voting and then expecting change is nonsensical.
That’s insane.
No that’s not why strikes work. Strukess work because workers force their employers to give them better rights. Democrats are better on labor compared to Republicans but people don’t only strike around election time.
The street action in Minnesota didn’t force ice out because some dude won an election. They forced ice out due to organized street action.
You are like a child looking at a dinner table, declaring the food is there because you put on the tablecloth
Explain how I’m wrong then. The causal chain was action --> voting --> results; action is important as one of the causes of voting, but if they only did direct action and did not vote, they would not have seen results. Is this incorrect?
The action led to the government having to accede to demands. That the government is elected is not the reason it felt the need to accede to the demands. Without voting the results would still happen. Without action there would be no results.
