Disclaimer: OP doesn’t support CCP or authoritarian communism.
show a coal chart too :/
Yeah I don’t think it’s useful to list GW capacities, as the country consumes and produces more power overall.
A more useful metric would be the percentage of renewables in the national grid.
Still, China is fairly impressive in that respect.
Sharing this here as it’s exactly what you mention!
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/carbon-intensity-electricity
CO2g per KWh is the standard metric for “how much a countries electricity pollutes”.
Tldr China’s is 580 and improving. USA is 370 and improving at a similar rate (this obviously might change under the current administration).
Others worth pointing too is Sweden (40gCO2) which is a good marker of what’s possible for a wealthy country and India (700gCO2) because as a country with a lot of economic development and recent historic poverty, it shows why China’s improvement is worth noting.
EDIT: I probabably implied that China and USA should be compared in terms of their improvements, but didn’t mean too! I figure Lemmy is a mostly USA centric place, so thought that was a good benchmark. Comparing USA to similar wealthy, established enconomies like European countries, it’s improving a lot slower. Comparing China to fast developing countries like India or Nigeria (probably a messy comparison) shows its improving faster than you’d expect.
Looks like China’s is improving, but still a little over the worldwide average.
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/carbon-intensity-electricity?tab=chart&country=
Edit: oops this is the same data you were showing, just in graph form instead.
What a weird graph, doesn’t tell us anything, why not an energy mix graph to show coal increasing in the energy mix? Oh it isn’t? These coal factory’s are made to shut older ones? Ohhh you’re not very smart
Or you could read the article.
“establish [new systems] before breaking [old ones]” (先立后破)."
Compared to the whole “move fast and break things” mantra thats migrated to the US government, this seems like a wise move.
Thanks! That is indeed a more useful and interesting piece of data.
I expected numbers on China to be a bit lower, but an improvement is surely significant.
Love the time slider!
Sad to see the tensions between groups inside Lemmy rose so bad that someone has to mention they are not pro-CCP when they say good about China.
China is not ultimate good. China is not ultimate bad. Chinese government just does some good things and some bad things.
The right wing Americans and Europeans have made their place on Lemmy. Anything china does it’s important they scream uguyrs or communism bad like that’s some sort of gotcha from children of (and sometimes literally active) colonisers
Lets be honest. China doesnt care if they cook the planet all the same. What matters is enegry independency.
I used to tell people the proper response to this stuff would be for western industries to do the free enterprise thing and compete in this market. But the rebuttals always just devolved into prejudiced xenophobia instead of any genuine opinion or belief in green energy, infrastructure, or patriotism.
Good on them.
How about per capita?
But but but… China the enemy though, right? We should hate them for this! 🥺
(yes, I’m memeing a bit, life isn’t black and white)
China the enemy though, right?
Their success in renewable energy doesn’t change the reality that China continues to disregard human rights, democracy, and freedom of speech.
So we can give credit for the renewable energy progress, maybe copy few ideas, but that’s about it.
No country is perfect and China is far away from it - but so are a bunch of other countries who call China out. Industrial nations have had more than 30 years to put out good numbers for green energy. Nuclear, wind, and hydro have been around for a long time. However those nations instead stayed at the top of the polluters and emitters lists - and they are still there.
However those nations instead stayed at the top of the polluters and emitters lists - and they are still there.
huh?
Those nations still are at the top. You just showed it. Right behind China. Top 5 regions and countries are all those who have been there for decades. Also, China is at the very top because those developed nations moved production offshore to cheaper area with less regulation. If that were attributed to them, they would have a worse performance than they already do.
Just look at plastic pollution. Western countries point a countries in East Asia and tell them to stop polluting while exporting plastic waste there. Creating a problem elsewhere and then going “wow, look at the problems in your country, why don’t you solve them?”
Now show per capita
Good on the EU. I think I was misremembering the comparison to the US as being largely in favor of China.
The planet doesn’t divide by the number of people. Absolute numbers are all that matter to climate change.
This argument doesn’t really track for me. The absolute number of murders is bad, but to say that a town of 1000 people has 50 murders, vs a city of 1000000 having 100, is to ignore that there is clearly something being done worse in the town.
I agree that the total emissions is the important factor, which is why we need to look at the countries that have much higher emissions per person and ask how are they failing.
Our goal is limiting climate change. It doesn’t matter if the emissions come from 3billion people or 1 billion people. The total emissions must go down.
You are confusing an economic argument (where do we get the most bang for our buck) with the ecological argument. Continuing your allegory, that would be a bunch of arsonists ready to torch both towns to the ground. That must not happen.
We all know China likes to fudge numbers. I just don’t know how far they went this time
You can see their solar and wind farms from space…
The numbers are in GW… where did that number come from? The people couting the panels from space or the CCP?
Do you think it’s impossible to estimate output without having access to the devices themselves?
China can fudge the numbers, sure, just like every country does, but if it’s not within reason, that’ll be very obvious and someone will check, then report on it. If you want to do the math, go ahead and do so, then report on it.
I didn’t say that. I asked a question about the origin of the numbers. Trying to strawman me smh.
Also, how can you be so sure it’s obvious? People’ve been reporting on the genoices in China only for tankies to deny it.
Do you even know what a strawman is? 🤨
Also, how can you be so sure it’s obvious?
Sure that what is obvious?
People’ve been reporting on the genoices in China only for tankies to deny it.
Wat?
Bruh
iea.org is the most likely source that I know about.
China’s plans for taking control of Taiwan are falling into place.
With renewable energy?
Their panels will blot out the sun. Their hydro-electric dams shall dry up the seas. Their wind turbines will choke them of air. Even the ground beneath their very feet aren’t safe, as the geothermal power plants will freeze the land below them. Taiwan will be begging for them to switch back to coal by the time China is done with them.
Classic nefarious communist strategy, damn. Next they’ll be after their purity of essence.
Coal use isn’t decreasing though, is it? Domestic supplies will keep that in business for another hundred years.
Energy security is why China is going hard on renewables. Thst’s not a bad thing, but put on your realist cap for a bit.
I agree that energy security and geopolitical considerations are behind China’s all out expansion, I’ve said so before, but in this particular case, I wonder if you might have overlooked an implied /s?
Am i missing something? You didn’t write anything in this comment chain, yet have inserted yourself.
Are people not allowed to reply to sarcasm?
They’re gonna stop the wind!
Blockading the Malacca Strait isn’t a worry for China when domestic production and Russian inports fill the gap.All of this green energy helps tremendoualy for keeping the country ticking along during a time of war.
Energy security for China is the real benefit here, it’a nothing to do with being environmental.
LoL. “OP doesn’t support communism.”
I’m sure capitalists will put the needs of the people first any day now. I’m sure it’s just a coincidence the communists are blowing past everyone else in renewables, and general quality of life.
No data point is a match for rabid Sinophobia.
They have alot of renewables, don’t ask them about coal though.
Yeah, they’ve had to use a lot of coal. They’re moving away from it. Did you not see the post you’re commenting on?
Their coal production is still rising. More renewables isn’t gonna help if they burn even more coal
Wrong. More renewables is exactly what’s going to help.
They’re also building a massive dam in Tibet, a space-based solar collection array, and multiple clean energy facilities in Africa. Name one country investing this much in clean energy.
They also have the most successful fusion reactor so far. Very good chance they’ll get there before the rest of us.
Moving away from coal would mean China is shutting down coal power plants. Instead they are building even more of them. They started construction on 94.5GW. The USA has 196.2GW of coal power plants total. You do not build them, if you do not plan to use them. So China is going to burn more coal in the coming years increasing their emissions.
What do you suggest? Deindustrialization?
Stop burning more fossil fuels as quickly as possible. The most important start is to stop adding more fossil fuel infrastructure like coal power plants.
a space-based solar collection array
I’d like a source on that, not because I don’t believe you, but because that genuinely sounds like a cool and interesting thing to read about
Thanks!
Did you read what I said? Renewables increasing isn’t going to help when their fossil fuel usage is increasing more than renewables. The fusion reactor is a good thing, but their coal usage shouldn’t be ignored.
I read it. You’re wrong. Increased renewables production is the only thing that will help. And their renewables increase is far outpacing their increased demand for energy.
Are other countries expected to de-industrialize for climate change, or just China?
I never said deindustrialise or anything. Any country increasing their fossil fuel production isn’t good, but it is well known that China is the one with the highest amount. I don’t see how increasing renewables will somehow decrease the amount of greenhouse gases when both are increasing.
He said authoritarian communism, the problems with authoritarian communism aren’t economic, they’re related to having a surveillance/police state
I’m pretty sure they edited that “authoritarian” in later. I also do not support China’s police state.
