• SomeLemmyUser@discuss.tchncs.de
    8·
    2 years ago

    Agree with you in general, but I think a lot if people here are not really informed what differences there are materialistic ideologies.

    Yes, Stalin bad.

    But Guevara is not Stalin.

    Marx is not che

    Engels is not Marx

    China is not communist.

    Marxism is not materialism

    Socialism is not communism

    Also the amount of people bringing the “the 3 times people tried socialism were bad, so the whole ideology must be bad” argument are way to high IMHO.

    How many times was capitalism tried? How many times it worked out? Is the USA a “functioning” state with all the oppression, racism, greed, invading other countries out of monetarian interest and environment destruction?

    While I agree with you, that oppression is bad, no matter what the oppressor calls himself, we should talk about policies without resorting to dogmas and generalising people in favor of fear the hegemonic class is propagating to stay in power.

      • TrashcanMarxist@sh.itjust.works
        0·
        2 years ago

        Should probably listen to Blowback Season 3.

        Not to say they’re a perfect country but to pretend that anyone in the West can critique them when their material conditions are dictated by the actions of the West is just comical.

        If you aren’t a materialist, what are you even doing? As if history happens in the realm of pure thought…

          • TrashcanMarxist@sh.itjust.works
            0·
            2 years ago

            Something something worlds largest prison population?

            Again, it’s not like North Korea is some shining example or anything, but to pretend that the west has the moral high ground here is laughable.

            Again, listen to Blowback Season 3, recognize that their country was basically bombed to the stone age Curtis le may style and then maybe reevaluate, just a little, the chauvinist attitude.

            DPRK is not a great country but it’s not as if they were ever given a chance either.

            • IriYan@lemmy.world
              1·
              1 year ago

              The country that holds the record for number and percentage of people in prison is the US. In the US the percentage of black people in prison was higher than the percentage of black people in prison in South Africa during apartheid.

              No other western/industrialized (at some stage) nation has had so many political exilees and people whose citizenship was revoked based on “anti-american” views than the US. At some point the general secretary of RCP was in exile in France with his citizenship revoked. So, not all states are equal, and their historic development as modern capitalist states should be studied within context.

    • SuddenDownpour@lemmy.world
      4·
      2 years ago

      When a liberal says “tankie” they mean anything remotely communist-looking. When a leftist says “tankie”, they mean authoritarians who like red flags and self-proclaimed communists who nonetheless support hierarchies and have no plan or intention to bring them down. I think the vast majority of people here knows this already.

    • 𝔊𝔦𝔫𝔧𝔲𝔱𝔰𝔲@lemmy.world
      1·
      2 years ago

      Is the USA a “functioning” state with all the oppression, racism, greed, invading other countries out of monetarian interest and environment destruction?

      I hope you realize that this is an incredibly privileged take. The US is rife with issues, but the hardships experienced by the average western citizen doesn’t even compare to the suffering that you would find in, say, Pol Pot’s Cambodia, or (to a less extreme extent) Maduro’s Venezuela. To compare what a US citizen deals with on a daily basis due to capitalism to what a citizen of any of those countries had to go through is very reductive and may be perceived as disrespectful to many who had to live those experiences.

      • proletariatnerd@iusearchlinux.fyi
        2·
        2 years ago

        The US is rife with issues, but the hardships experienced by the average western citizen doesn’t even compare to the suffering that you would find in, say, Pol Pot’s Cambodia

        I have some fellas from Detroit that would disagree.

        • Cowbob45@beehaw.org
          2·
          2 years ago

          My dude you need to stop right now before you end up saying that genocide isn’t that bad. Because that’s what Pol Pot did.

      • Definitely_me@lemmy.blahaj.zone
        1·
        2 years ago

        The United States, for all it’s faults, is the pretty side of capitalism.you don’t even need to look to the most poor countries to see a standard of living that makes even directly post ww2 soviet union look like a great place.

      • Cynosure@lemmy.world
        1·
        2 years ago

        Well of course the standard of living in the imperial core is higher than the countries it has exploited or destabilized. A lot of American wealth is the fruit of imperialism.

  • Kagami@lemmy.world
    3·
    1 year ago

    When a leftist, or progressive says “tankie” it is different from what the mainstream media perceives. It (tankie) indicates someone who is overzealously supportive of non-Western imperialist countries such as Russia and China and denies their atrocities.

    Also, the term developed from the tanks deplored by the user to invade Hungary and denote people who supported such action.

    • GarbageShootAlt2@lemmy.ml
      0·
      2 years ago

      Meanwhile anarchist organizing doesn’t have cops, it has Agents of Community Defense who definitely aren’t cops!

      I have nothing against anarchists, but you need to see past slogans to be anything but a useful idiot to neoliberals.

      • Big_Farto@sh.itjust.works
        1·
        2 years ago

        I mean any person or entity that enforces oppressive laws is a bastard. The government of China is far from some sort of benevolent state.

  • BlinkerFluid@lemmy.one
    2·
    2 years ago

    Thank fuck. I thought Lemmy was some ultra militant leftist hellhole before the shift.

    I don’t like extreme radical left any more than extreme radical right.

    Fuck Che Guevara. Read a book.

  • buckykat@lemmy.fmhy.ml
    2·
    2 years ago

    What are some good actual communist lemmy communities that aren’t supporting the fucking capitalist imperialist russian invasion?

    • WabiSabiPapi@lemmy.world
      2·
      2 years ago

      look for anarchists if you desire a classless, stateless, moneyless society.

      communism has been coopted by auth apologists infatuated with the color red.

        • WabiSabiPapi@lemmy.world
          1·
          2 years ago

          https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/david-graeber-are-you-an-anarchist-the-answer-may-surprise-you

          anarchism acknowledges Marxist theory, but rejects the need for a state/beaurocratic apparatus, as it is considered to be fundamentally oppressive.

          the state is an abstraction of capital, and cannot liberate the working class, as it exists to perpetuate its own hegemonic existence, our subjugation.

          governance need not be heirarchichal; I promote collective mutual determination as an egalitarian system by which society can organize.

          can’t dismantle the master’s house with the master’s tools

          • kartonrealista@lemmy.world
            1·
            2 years ago

            governance need not be heirarchichal; I promote collective mutual determination as an egalitarian system by which society can organize.

            I don’t. I don’t think all hierarchies are unjust, I evaluate them based on their effect on the world. If a hierarchy can solve a problem better, it’s the preferable solution.

            Everyone believes they are capable of behaving reasonably themselves. If they think laws and police are necessary, it is only because they don’t believe that other people are. But if you think about it, don’t those people all feel exactly the same way about you?

            But what if we all have a different idea of what behaving reasonably means?

            Anarchists argue that almost all the anti-social behavior which makes us think it’s necessary to have armies, police, prisons, and governments to control our lives, is actually caused by the systematic inequalities and injustice those armies, police, prisons and governments make possible.

            That’s silly. Systemic inequalities don’t make people park their vehicles on the bike path or murder their wife because they think she cheated on them. If anarchism is all about thinking people are angels unless bad, bad oppressive systems make them do evil things they couldn’t do on their own then I don’t think we’ll ever get along. It’s alternate reality and an incredibly naive way of looking at the world and human nature.

            Edit: could you kindly not respond to this? I don’t have an option to silence this thread on my end, and don’t want to hear about it any further.

        • Silverstrings@lemmy.blahaj.zone
          1·
          2 years ago

          There are an infinite variety of flavors of socialism, at some point you gotta learn to find folks you don’t disagree with on anything too important. In my experience anarchists are generally chill.

  • animelivesmatter@lemmy.blahaj.zone
    2·
    2 years ago

    finds social media developed by tankies

    looks inside

    finds tankies

    fr I’m down with having a good old purge eventually but noone should be surprised

    • AtomicAria@beehaw.orgEnglish
      1·
      2 years ago

      ? The developers of Lemmy are tankies, it’s important to make sure that tankies know they aren’t welcome here.

      • setVeryLoud(true);@lemmy.caEnglish
        1·
        2 years ago

        Gotta ask for both a source and your definition of a “tankie”.

        You keep using that word, I don’t think it means what you think it means.

        • sp6@lemmy.worldEnglish
          1·
          2 years ago

          A tankie is someone who supports authoritarian communism (I believe the term originated from using tanks to suppress protests)

          Here’s a post showing that the main instance of Lemmy (hosted by the main 2 Lemmy devs) removes any negative posts about the Chinese or Russian governments for “orientalism”: https://lemmy.pineapplemachine.com/post/5784

          In the comments of that post, you can find one of the devs borderline defending what China is doing to the Uyghurs: https://lemmy.pineapplemachine.com/comment/5950

          That same dev has a github repo called “essays on communism”: https://github.com/dessalines/essays

          I’m pretty sure both of the devs’ profile pictures are Fidel Castro too

          • setVeryLoud(true);@lemmy.caEnglish
            2·
            2 years ago

            Aight fair enough, that’s pretty concerning.

            Nothing wrong per se with communism itself, it just tends to be extremely unstable and quickly turns to authoritarianism, I don’t think it’s ever worked for any nation in history so far.

            The defending of Uyghur genocides, and the defending of the CCP and Russian government is really concerning though. Good thing this platform is federated.

            libretro has a similar problem, it’s developed by a team of transphobic, homophobic, racist Russian apologists who border on Nazism. I don’t know what attracts these people to FOSS development.

  • Sekoia@lemmy.blahaj.zone
    1·
    2 years ago

    This post has literally 6 times the comments of the next most-comments post, jesus. Wonder what could have triggered this!