@oliphant
@HistoPol @snarfed
@snarfed.org @luca @PCOWandre @fedidevs @fediversenews @chronohart @activitypubblueskybridge
I’m wondering if that means there may be a functional difference between blocking the bridge vs adding the #nobridge tag?
@oliphant
@HistoPol @snarfed
@snarfed.org @luca @PCOWandre @fedidevs @fediversenews @chronohart @activitypubblueskybridge
I’m wondering if that means there may be a functional difference between blocking the bridge vs adding the #nobridge tag?
@HistoPol@mastodon.social @jamie@boothcomputing.social @oliphant@oliphant.social @snarfed.org@snarfed.org @luca@sironi.tk @PCOWandre@jauntygoat.net @chronohart@tech.lgbt @snarfed@indieweb.social The gist is that if you want to prevent your posts from being shared outside of screenshots and quote-posts (where the contents of the post are just copied) the only option is to join a whitelist-only server.
These are servers that federate only with explicitly approved servers, ie. if someone tries to connect from any instance not on that list they’re blocked by default.
That’s kinda the root of the argument here where a great many people have a false assumption that the fediverse is about control of your data when it is quite the opposite. It’s like trying to protect your art from being used by others… by marking it Creative Commons.
The entire design of all federated systems is around open sharing, you can only get control over how your posts spread in a closed system with little or no federation.
As far as whether or not you use those platforms, my example was regardless of whether you’re a user.
My server federates across multiple different protocols, if I boost your post then your post is probably being made available to multiple different networks automatically.
The protections and control involved in federated networks is not in how your data is shared, but in how your access is controlled.
In the fediverse you don’t have to worry about a bad admin blocking your access to everyone you know, you can freely move accounts between instances. If you piss of Elon for instance, you’re cut off from Twitter and everyone on it… full stop… but if you piss off your instance admin, you just move instances and can still connect with everyone.
It’s also control over your experience in that you’re not relying purely on what their algorithms think you should see. If the instance your on has an algorithm set up that you don’t like, then you can move instances to one that has the algorithm you like.
You also have protections against enshittification (the process by which those other networks will draw you in with great features, and then once you’re locked in slowly shut down or degrade those features). If features that are important to you start getting shut down on your server… you can move to one that keeps them. If a platform developer does it, another developer can fork the project to keep those features alive.
You also have choice in terms of clients and experiences. You’re using Mastodon and I’m on Friendica (I know your instance type because Friendica shows me a little icon beside posts). I vastly prefer the Friendica experience, and I have the choice to use that. And I can use that without forcing you to use the same interface.
@shiri@foggyminds.com @jamie@boothcomputing.social @oliphant@oliphant.social @snarfed.org@snarfed.org @luca@sironi.tk @PCOWandre@jauntygoat.net @chronohart@tech.lgbt @snarfed@indieweb.social
(1/n)
I think I owe you a quick #INTRO, as I have not been in contact with you before, so you might better understand my concerns.
I am a political commentator, as well as an activist. This is why I cannot remain silent:
This is a global super-election year. #Democracy is up for grabs in about 50 countries.1)–This is how the billionaires and the #autocrats like #Putin and #Xi see it, or how #YoelRoth…
@activitypubblueskybridge@venera.social
AP-AT-BridgeGroup
Very interesting, how is it possible that you boosted my #Intro thread, even though I have #NoBridge in my bio and am not even a member of your group?!?
@shiri@foggyminds.com @jamie@boothcomputing.social @oliphant@oliphant.social @snarfed.org@snarfed.org @luca@sironi.tk @PCOWandre@jauntygoat.net @chronohart@tech.lgbt @snarfed@indieweb.social
It’s because that’s not the bridge, that’s a Friendica group about working on such bridges. Friendica supports group accounts that you post to by tagging the group.
Group accounts work by boosting every post that tags them.
The initial post was made to the Fediverse News, Fediverse Developer Discussion, and AP-AT-Bridge Group groups, which is why you’ll see them boosting almost every comment throughout this entire thread. Anyone who didn’t explicitly removed them from the references is posting to that group as well.
The bridge will not appear as a single account. The bridge will translate accounts through it, so if I made an account named Shiri on the official bluesky server, then followed you through the bridge you would see a follow request from shiri:bsky.social@bsky.brid.gy (name formatting probably will differ slightly), likewise that would be the name that would appear for everything I do through the bridge with your account.
If you wanted to block my specific bluesky account from accessing your account, you could block it as normal and it’ll work just the same as it always has.
With # NoBridge in your bio, when I go to look up your account through the bridge I either won’t get anything at all as if you don’t exist or it’ll tell me that you’ve opted out of the bridge.
@HistoPol@mastodon.social @jamie@boothcomputing.social @oliphant@oliphant.social @snarfed.org@snarfed.org @luca@sironi.tk @PCOWandre@jauntygoat.net @chronohart@tech.lgbt @snarfed@indieweb.social
@shiri
Thanks for the explanation, Shiri.
I pay attention to such thinks, but even with hindsight, I do not see such a group reference.
On #Mastodon, groups are also possible, but I forgot how to use them, as I used them so little.
@jamie @oliphant @snarfed.org @luca @PCOWandre @chronohart @snarfed
@HistoPol
That’s because Mastodon doesn’t tell you that
Not yet. They’re working on it. And everything else that has working groups/forums now is afraid that Mastodon will re-invent the wheel in a way that’s the most incompatible possible to what already exists on more than half a dozen Fediverse projects.
What you mean is probably Guppe, but that isn’t built into Mastodon and a far cry from what’s possible on Friendica.
CC: @Jamie Booth @Oli @Ryan Barrett @Luca Sironi @Andre @chronohart
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Mastodon #Friendica #Groups
Unless it was recently added, groups are not a thing on Mastodon itself. I do know in the Mastodon side of things a lot of people use Guppe: a.gup.pe/ for groups, which work in the same fashion as Friendica groups, just with no moderator/admin.
In the case of the groups, all 3 have it in their description that they’re groups.
Because Mastodon has no support for groups there’s no indicator anywhere other than the description that an account is a group account.
@HistoPol@mastodon.social @jamie@boothcomputing.social @oliphant@oliphant.social @snarfed.org@snarfed.org @luca@sironi.tk @PCOWandre@jauntygoat.net @chronohart@tech.lgbt @snarfed@indieweb.social
@shiri@foggyminds.com @jamie@boothcomputing.social @oliphant@oliphant.social @snarfed.org@snarfed.org @luca@sironi.tk @PCOWandre@jauntygoat.net @chronohart@tech.lgbt @snarfed@indieweb.social
(2/n)
…former head of #Twitter’s Trust and Security department, might have phrased it. 2)
We have all seen what has happened to #Twitter. What many still don’t know, is why he is supposedly burning a lot of money with the purchase: 3).
#Musk and his #TESCREAL 4) adherents from Silicon Valley are vying for world domination. #Elmo already is the world’s most…
@shiri@foggyminds.com @jamie@boothcomputing.social @oliphant@oliphant.social @snarfed.org@snarfed.org @luca@sironi.tk @PCOWandre@jauntygoat.net @chronohart@tech.lgbt @snarfed@indieweb.social
(3/n)
…influential fascist, just considering his market power regarding #SpaceX 5) and the “voice” he has as #X owner. By turning off his #StarLink service in #Crimea, he has successfully prevented potentially victorious strikes by #Ukraine against #Russia’s invasion force.
But they are not the only #billionaire group vying for even more power. The most…
@shiri@foggyminds.com @jamie@boothcomputing.social @oliphant@oliphant.social @snarfed.org@snarfed.org @luca@sironi.tk @PCOWandre@jauntygoat.net @chronohart@tech.lgbt @snarfed@indieweb.social
(4/n)
… successful has so far been the #FederalistSociety in conjunction with the #CenterForNationalPolicy (#CNP), among whose major feats are putting #Trump in the #WhiteHouse and hijacking the #US #SupremeCourt. 6)
#Autocrats like #Putin and #Xi trying to gain influence through military and economic means are the other group of people trying to destroy #Western #democracies by disseminating…
@shiri@foggyminds.com @jamie@boothcomputing.social @oliphant@oliphant.social @snarfed.org@snarfed.org @luca@sironi.tk @PCOWandre@jauntygoat.net @chronohart@tech.lgbt @snarfed@indieweb.social
(5/n)
… #disinformation and carrying out #CyberWarfare.
And, last but not least, another, even more dangerous #PayPal of #Elmo, #PeterThiel, is enabling governments around the globe to get rid of opponents. The dangerous spyware he owns, #Palantir, is being used e.g. to hunt down investigative journalists in #SouthAmerica 8) and elsewhere 7) and for #discriminatory…
@shiri@foggyminds.com @jamie@boothcomputing.social @oliphant@oliphant.social @snarfed.org@snarfed.org @luca@sironi.tk @PCOWandre@jauntygoat.net @chronohart@tech.lgbt @snarfed@indieweb.social
(6/n)
…#PredictivePolicing. 8)
2024 certainly isn’t the year to remain silent:
#Poland lost and regained its democracy twice already.
The US might lose it to a ruthless autocrat in 2025.
And #Ukraine is fighting tooth and nail for its #democracy.
//
FOOTNOTES:
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2023/12/2024-elections-around-world/
https://mastodon.social/@HistoPol/111086529042597457
https://mastodon.social/@HistoPol/110079043525873237
https://mastodon.social/@HistoPol/110565890923413442
…
For journalists the value of the fediverse is in not getting silenced. It’s here to amplify voices in that fashion so that nobody can be silenced, for good or ill (ie. you can block Nazi instances so you don’t see them, but you can’t stop a Nazi instance from existing or sharing content).
If you operate in a “I control where my message goes” manner, then you’re operating in a manner that can be very easily silenced. It drastically limits your reach.
It’s one of those fundamental things where you can’t have it both ways, control over your reach is inherently limiting to your reach.
And when talking about the fight against fascism, uncontrolled spread is very much preferable as they can’t silence you. If you are careful in your security you can post from an account until the fascists shut down your server… but the post will still be out there floating around. And you can just as easily stay on the network by starting a new account every time they shut down a server… they’d have to shut down the whole network to stop you.
Bridges make it even harder for them because then you can also jump between platforms and if they can’t shut down your server they’d have to shut down every single bridge… which new ones can be started with trivial ease (a lot less work and resources than starting up normal instances).
There’s nothing they can do to you over a bridge that they can’t already do without a bridge, in fact they have less control through a bridge. But you on the other hand have your voice amplified even further.
Additionally the whole fediverse gets stronger as it encourages development on both sides, if one starts lagging behind in features/quality it permits users to move without “leaving” the fediverse.
If Bluesky starts pumping hardcore propaganda and silencing leftist voices… then the bridge offers a light, showing the abuse and giving them a way out that doesn’t involve starting over from scratch.
@HistoPol@mastodon.social @jamie@boothcomputing.social @oliphant@oliphant.social @snarfed.org@snarfed.org @luca@sironi.tk @PCOWandre@jauntygoat.net @chronohart@tech.lgbt @snarfed@indieweb.social
@shiri@foggyminds.com
(1/2)
"If you operate in a “I control where my message goes” manner, then you’re operating in a manner that can be very easily silenced. It drastically limits your reach.
It’s one of those fundamental things where you can’t have it both ways, control over your reach is inherently limiting to your reach."
Excellent point, Shiri. Taken.
However, please…
@jamie@boothcomputing.social @oliphant@oliphant.social @snarfed.org@snarfed.org @luca@sironi.tk @PCOWandre@jauntygoat.net @chronohart@tech.lgbt @snarfed@indieweb.social
@shiri@foggyminds.com
(1/2)
“If Bluesky starts pumping hardcore propaganda and silencing leftist voices… then the bridge offers a light, showing the abuse and giving them a way out that doesn’t involve starting over from scratch.”
How so? I have not read that you can migrate you #BlueSky account to another #Fediverse platform, say, #friendica
However, for me the single biggest #exit barrier is, that I…
@jamie@boothcomputing.social @oliphant@oliphant.social @snarfed.org@snarfed.org @luca@sironi.tk @PCOWandre@jauntygoat.net @chronohart@tech.lgbt @snarfed@indieweb.social
@shiri
"…have to shut down the whole network to stop you.
Bridges make it even harder for them because then you can also jump between platforms and if they can’t shut down your server they’d have to shut down every single bridge…"
I begin to like #bridges. #FascismProof and #AutocracyProof, so-to-speak :)
@jamie @oliphant @snarfed.org @luca @PCOWandre @chronohart @snarfed
@HistoPol
For someone like you, you would probably want to post publicly, to as many platforms and protocols as you can, so you reach a wider audience. But you would need to choose a platform with better permissions and moderation tools.
For example, you would want to control who can comment on your posts and be able to delete comments that are toxic. Mastodon does not have this capability, but most platforms that have threaded conversations give you that ability.
@scott@authorship.studio
" But you would need to choose a platform with better permissions and moderation tools.
For example, you would want to control who can comment on your posts and be able to delete comments that are toxic. "
Very true.
However, I have a very strick block policy and in 98% of cases, the threat of using it, helps.
I always wonder a little bit what happens, after I block s.o.
My understanding is, that his/her posts remain, but we cannot see each others posts anymore (counter-block, mostly)
@HistoPol On platforms like Hubzilla and Streams (and most other platforms that support threaded conversations), you have more control.
Basically, a threaded conversation is a container, and the person who started the conversation controls what goes into that container. If you, as the person who started the conversation, don’t like what someone said, you can delete their post. Since it is part of your container, a delete notification goes out to everyone participating on your thread and the post gets deleted for them too. The person who originally posted it would still have their copy, and their followers might still see it, but it would no longer be distributed via your thread to people following the thread. You can also prevent someone from commenting on your post at all, which in that case, their comment gets rejected and is not distributed to anyone.
It works similar with forum topics, except the forum owns the initial conversation. The administrator or moderator can delete posts and restrict commenting.
The threaded conversation model gives you more control over the conversation than non-threaded platforms based on pre-X Twitter.