@oliphant
@HistoPol @snarfed
@snarfed.org @luca @PCOWandre @fedidevs @fediversenews @chronohart @activitypubblueskybridge
I’m wondering if that means there may be a functional difference between blocking the bridge vs adding the #nobridge tag?
@oliphant
@HistoPol @snarfed
@snarfed.org @luca @PCOWandre @fedidevs @fediversenews @chronohart @activitypubblueskybridge
I’m wondering if that means there may be a functional difference between blocking the bridge vs adding the #nobridge tag?
For journalists the value of the fediverse is in not getting silenced. It’s here to amplify voices in that fashion so that nobody can be silenced, for good or ill (ie. you can block Nazi instances so you don’t see them, but you can’t stop a Nazi instance from existing or sharing content).
If you operate in a “I control where my message goes” manner, then you’re operating in a manner that can be very easily silenced. It drastically limits your reach.
It’s one of those fundamental things where you can’t have it both ways, control over your reach is inherently limiting to your reach.
And when talking about the fight against fascism, uncontrolled spread is very much preferable as they can’t silence you. If you are careful in your security you can post from an account until the fascists shut down your server… but the post will still be out there floating around. And you can just as easily stay on the network by starting a new account every time they shut down a server… they’d have to shut down the whole network to stop you.
Bridges make it even harder for them because then you can also jump between platforms and if they can’t shut down your server they’d have to shut down every single bridge… which new ones can be started with trivial ease (a lot less work and resources than starting up normal instances).
There’s nothing they can do to you over a bridge that they can’t already do without a bridge, in fact they have less control through a bridge. But you on the other hand have your voice amplified even further.
Additionally the whole fediverse gets stronger as it encourages development on both sides, if one starts lagging behind in features/quality it permits users to move without “leaving” the fediverse.
If Bluesky starts pumping hardcore propaganda and silencing leftist voices… then the bridge offers a light, showing the abuse and giving them a way out that doesn’t involve starting over from scratch.
@HistoPol@mastodon.social @jamie@boothcomputing.social @oliphant@oliphant.social @snarfed.org@snarfed.org @luca@sironi.tk @PCOWandre@jauntygoat.net @chronohart@tech.lgbt @snarfed@indieweb.social
@shiri@foggyminds.com
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“If Bluesky starts pumping hardcore propaganda and silencing leftist voices… then the bridge offers a light, showing the abuse and giving them a way out that doesn’t involve starting over from scratch.”
How so? I have not read that you can migrate you #BlueSky account to another #Fediverse platform, say, #friendica
However, for me the single biggest #exit barrier is, that I…
@jamie@boothcomputing.social @oliphant@oliphant.social @snarfed.org@snarfed.org @luca@sironi.tk @PCOWandre@jauntygoat.net @chronohart@tech.lgbt @snarfed@indieweb.social
@HistoPol@mastodon.social @jamie@boothcomputing.social @oliphant@oliphant.social @snarfed.org@snarfed.org @luca@sironi.tk @PCOWandre@jauntygoat.net @chronohart@tech.lgbt @snarfed@indieweb.social missed this earlier, but the way out isn’t usually account migration, that’s a very specific and non-standard function that Mastodon implemented (Mastodon has a bad habit of only half-implementing ActivityPub and then rolling out it’s own features and forcing everyone else to comply with their non-standard nonsense… they’re kinda the internet explorer of the fediverse)
The way out is because you can leave without severing connections. I’m not saying you won’t have to re-add people… but that you still have the option to re-add people. If someone deletes their Twitter account… they lose access to everyone that’s only on Twitter. If Bluesky is bridged (and no ifs ands or buts, open bridges will exist despite people’s complaints) and they delete their Bluesky account… they’d still have access to those same people.
The whole reason Facebook sticks around and maintains enormous power is because so many people don’t have the option to leave without making themselves second class citizens in their communities. (Literally the only reason I have a facebook account… if I could access them over fedi, I’d delete my account in a heartbeat)
@shiri@foggyminds.com
Highly interesting.
I think this sentence is missing the alternative method to #AccountMigration:
“The way out is because you can leave without severing connections.”
@jamie@boothcomputing.social @oliphant@oliphant.social @snarfed.org@snarfed.org @luca@sironi.tk @PCOWandre@jauntygoat.net @chronohart@tech.lgbt @snarfed@indieweb.social
@HistoPol@mastodon.social @jamie@boothcomputing.social @oliphant@oliphant.social @snarfed.org@snarfed.org @luca@sironi.tk @PCOWandre@jauntygoat.net @chronohart@tech.lgbt @snarfed@indieweb.social The alternative is making a new account and re-adding the same people.
I had to do that when I moved from Mastodon to Friendica.
@shiri@foggyminds.com
I did this using a Tool migrating from the (now) #DeadBirdSite.
Still, not being able to migrate the convos is NOT an “alternative”, but an escape hatch."
One example, that many will know:
Imagine, that you invented 1000’s of hours uploading and curating pics and shorts on your #Instagram account.
For whatever reason, you cannot maintain your account. Starting a new one, you lose all your work (it’s not just…
@jamie@boothcomputing.social @oliphant@oliphant.social @snarfed.org@snarfed.org @luca@sironi.tk @PCOWandre@jauntygoat.net @chronohart@tech.lgbt @snarfed@indieweb.social
@shiri@foggyminds.com @jamie@boothcomputing.social @oliphant@oliphant.social @snarfed.org@snarfed.org @luca@sironi.tk @PCOWandre@jauntygoat.net @chronohart@tech.lgbt @snarfed@indieweb.social
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…just the pics, but the interaction with contacts.)
PS:
I know:
…there are tools for exporting (beside the point)
…many people here even autodelete there posts (utterly different use-case)
…it’s better than on most corporate sites (yes, but still just “rudimentary” flexibility, at least on #Mastodon.)
…that #Firefish(?) (still?) supports own-post migration (but that was no choice when I joined)
//
Like I said before, all of that is non-standard functions that the vast majority of the fediverse doesn’t even support.
I think you might be confusing ease and possibility. Few people even when moving instances within the fediverse are going to have that option (save for those moving between two instances of the same platform).
It’s not whether there’s some convenient tool to move your posts or other data.
It’s about whether after the move you can still get the same updates and talk to the same people.
Think of it in terms of the oldest surviving federated network: changing email accounts.
Before SMTP (the federated email protocol), you had to have accounts on every server with people you wanted to talk to. After you only had to have one account, but could readily move about the network to other servers if you got fed up with your server’s bullshit or another offered better services.
(And for the record, public bridges with no opt-out methods exist for email as well)
@HistoPol@mastodon.social @jamie@boothcomputing.social @oliphant@oliphant.social @snarfed.org@snarfed.org @luca@sironi.tk @PCOWandre@jauntygoat.net @chronohart@tech.lgbt @snarfed@indieweb.social
I didn’t knew this thing that you can’t migrate your follower from mastodon to friendica 😐
From mastodon to pleroma (and i think also misskey) it works.
cc @informapirata@mastodon.uno
@luca I understand your difficulties, but always remember that Friendica is compatible with ActivityPub BUT it works with a different protocol and its profiles are particular objects that contain a kind of unique key
@shiri
@informapirata@mastodon.uno @luca@sironi.tk it used to work with a different protocol, Friendica has been ActivityPub based longer than Mastodon has been alive.
Always remember that Mastodon is well established to be a poor neighbor in the AP community, not supporting the full spec and often implementing their own non-standard solutions.
@shiri@foggyminds.com I’m actually pretty sure Friendica put up Activitypub a few months later than mastodon, but otherwise I agree with what you say.
@luca@sironi.tk
@shiri@foggyminds.com @informapirata@mastodon.uno @activitypubblueskybridge@venera.social @fedidevs@venera.social @fediversenews@venera.social
Well, migrating followers (just followers) should really be a standard feature of ActivityPub then.
One that must be implemented by all the supposed AP compatible projects
Nobody is gonna buy the theoretical reach of all the same people, like real freedom to change fediverse provider.
cc @evan@cosocial.ca
@luca@sironi.tk @informapirata@mastodon.uno Some platforms have specifically gone out of their way to support Mastodon’s non-standard functions… that doesn’t make them standard or a platform as deficient for not supporting them.
A lot of that has to do with the relationship between them, where many of those are newer platforms inspired by and emulating Mastodon. Friendica on the other hand is one of the old school platforms that looooong predates Mastodon, so supporting any of their non-standard stuff is a monumental task (it’s easy to support something when you’re starting from scratch)
@shiri@foggyminds.com @jamie@boothcomputing.social @oliphant@oliphant.social @snarfed.org@snarfed.org @luca@sironi.tk @PCOWandre@jauntygoat.net @chronohart@tech.lgbt @snarfed@indieweb.social
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…would lose my over 40k posts again, and a lot of them are important to me, as I regularly reference back to older posts. Furthermore, convos/discussions, such as these, are of value and are also worth keeping for future reference. They’d be lost, too, by moving. AFAIC, there is only one #Fediverse platform that permits migrating posts, but only internally, too.
//
@shiri@foggyminds.com
(1/2)
"If you operate in a “I control where my message goes” manner, then you’re operating in a manner that can be very easily silenced. It drastically limits your reach.
It’s one of those fundamental things where you can’t have it both ways, control over your reach is inherently limiting to your reach."
Excellent point, Shiri. Taken.
However, please…
@jamie@boothcomputing.social @oliphant@oliphant.social @snarfed.org@snarfed.org @luca@sironi.tk @PCOWandre@jauntygoat.net @chronohart@tech.lgbt @snarfed@indieweb.social
@shiri
"…have to shut down the whole network to stop you.
Bridges make it even harder for them because then you can also jump between platforms and if they can’t shut down your server they’d have to shut down every single bridge…"
I begin to like #bridges. #FascismProof and #AutocracyProof, so-to-speak :)
@jamie @oliphant @snarfed.org @luca @PCOWandre @chronohart @snarfed
@HistoPol
That is one of the main reasons the fediverse exists and and is structured the way it is.
There still are some concerns about trolls commenting on your posts, but that can be dealt with using the proper tools.
This applies to the fediverse as well.