Reuters had access to a message published on Volkswagen's intranet site in which brand chief Thomas Schaefer admitted partial and early retirements are planned.
Why is this comment so popular on cars. Hatchbacks have similar cargo space as crossovers but the lower ride height is far more engaging to drive. This belief that crossovers are more premium is why Americans are stuck with boring fucking cars.
As a comment it’s pretty aware of what the market wants? When given the choice most people (which is what we’re discussing) choose a plainer crossover over a better handling hatchback.
It’s not like the ID3 is some amazing ride or anything anyway.
The ID3 is massive. People call it a hatchback due to it’s shape but it’s 6.1 cm taller than a Golf. It’s closer to a Tiguan than to a Golf.
The comment i was making wasn’t aimed at SUV vs Hatch but more to show how overpriced the ID3 is. The TIguan is 11,000 euros LESS than a ID3. Passat is 12,000 euros Less than ID3 and the Arteon is 12,200 eur less than the ID3. It’s truly bonkers
No one does cross shopping for ICE and electric with sticker prices. They look at true cost of ownership. Once you factor in the gas costs and the fact that there’s less maintenance and mechanical parts required with electric cars, the electric car is usually more cost-effective.
It’s foolish to cross-shop ICE and electric with sticker prices. It’s pertinent to consider true cost of ownership. Once you factor in the gas costs and the fact that there’s less maintenance and mechanical parts required with electric cars, the electric car is usually more cost-effective.
That is until you factor in the cost to replace the batteries, which is in the tens of thousands for VWs, which probably outweighs the cost of gasoline, depending on when they fail.
Somewhere else in this thread that cost of replacement batteries was being discussed in a far more knowledgeable fashion than what I could.
Here’s some quick maths: $50 per week on gas, times 52 weeks per year is only $2600, multiplied by 5 years is still only $13k.
The replacement battery cost is at least $20k.
Oil changes at $50, 4 times a year, or every 3 months, and a whole new set of GOOD tires ($1200) brings the grand total to $16,200 for maintenance for 5 years.
That makes the electric vehicle more expensive to own, plus factoring in that you have to pay that $20,000 all at once, as if everyone has that laying around to shell out for car repairs. Plus the cost of electricity to charge your EV every month. I have a car with an ICE, so I have no idea how much that costs to charge your EV, but it’s definitely a non-zero amount, however cheap it may be.
I would rather buy a hybrid than an EV. I’m not willing to deal with a $25K+ batter replacement, a charging network that isn’t Tesla’s, or the disappointing fit and finish that Teslas come with out of the factory.
Because 99% of people don’t care about an engaging drive and new cuv’s handle way better than a normal sedan from 10 years ago anyways. The limit of grip is still way higher than most people will ever get to. I’ve always driven older enthusiast cars and I couldn’t believe how well my wifes new rav4 handles compared to my old cars.
You can’t just lump together all 10yr old sedans. Just because you had a 2013 Camry with worn out suspension that rode worse than your new CRV, it doesn’t mean a brand new E92 BMW 3 series handles worse than your CRV.
Limits of grip is one small aspect of handling. Feedback, responsiveness, nimbleness, chassis dynamics are all part of the equation. Lower center of gravity is still a key factor in that. There’s only so much you can do to counter the laws of physics.
You’re missing my point handling is on the bottom of the list of wants in a car for the vast majority of people buying cars. Most people buy a cuv/suv for more room for kids, camping, carrying more goods, people etc. It’s just a better vehicle for most people. I’ve always had fun cars as a dd and I never felt like the rav 4 was bad handling wise. Handles very flat and feels more confident than my Saab 9-2x on turn in.
well yes, makes sense. A VW ID3 starts at 42,000 eur, this is meant to be the EV Golf but it costs as much as an SUV ( or more )
Why is this comment so popular on cars. Hatchbacks have similar cargo space as crossovers but the lower ride height is far more engaging to drive. This belief that crossovers are more premium is why Americans are stuck with boring fucking cars.
As a comment it’s pretty aware of what the market wants? When given the choice most people (which is what we’re discussing) choose a plainer crossover over a better handling hatchback.
It’s not like the ID3 is some amazing ride or anything anyway.
classic reddit indignation, love it
The ID3 is massive. People call it a hatchback due to it’s shape but it’s 6.1 cm taller than a Golf. It’s closer to a Tiguan than to a Golf.
The comment i was making wasn’t aimed at SUV vs Hatch but more to show how overpriced the ID3 is. The TIguan is 11,000 euros LESS than a ID3. Passat is 12,000 euros Less than ID3 and the Arteon is 12,200 eur less than the ID3. It’s truly bonkers
No one does cross shopping for ICE and electric with sticker prices. They look at true cost of ownership. Once you factor in the gas costs and the fact that there’s less maintenance and mechanical parts required with electric cars, the electric car is usually more cost-effective.
That is until you factor in the cost to replace the batteries, which is in the tens of thousands for VWs, which probably outweighs the cost of gasoline, depending on when they fail.
Somewhere else in this thread that cost of replacement batteries was being discussed in a far more knowledgeable fashion than what I could.
Here’s some quick maths: $50 per week on gas, times 52 weeks per year is only $2600, multiplied by 5 years is still only $13k.
The replacement battery cost is at least $20k.
Oil changes at $50, 4 times a year, or every 3 months, and a whole new set of GOOD tires ($1200) brings the grand total to $16,200 for maintenance for 5 years.
That makes the electric vehicle more expensive to own, plus factoring in that you have to pay that $20,000 all at once, as if everyone has that laying around to shell out for car repairs. Plus the cost of electricity to charge your EV every month. I have a car with an ICE, so I have no idea how much that costs to charge your EV, but it’s definitely a non-zero amount, however cheap it may be.
I would rather buy a hybrid than an EV. I’m not willing to deal with a $25K+ batter replacement, a charging network that isn’t Tesla’s, or the disappointing fit and finish that Teslas come with out of the factory.
Americans like crossovers because our roads are shit
Because 99% of people don’t care about an engaging drive and new cuv’s handle way better than a normal sedan from 10 years ago anyways. The limit of grip is still way higher than most people will ever get to. I’ve always driven older enthusiast cars and I couldn’t believe how well my wifes new rav4 handles compared to my old cars.
You can’t just lump together all 10yr old sedans. Just because you had a 2013 Camry with worn out suspension that rode worse than your new CRV, it doesn’t mean a brand new E92 BMW 3 series handles worse than your CRV. Limits of grip is one small aspect of handling. Feedback, responsiveness, nimbleness, chassis dynamics are all part of the equation. Lower center of gravity is still a key factor in that. There’s only so much you can do to counter the laws of physics.
You’re missing my point handling is on the bottom of the list of wants in a car for the vast majority of people buying cars. Most people buy a cuv/suv for more room for kids, camping, carrying more goods, people etc. It’s just a better vehicle for most people. I’ve always had fun cars as a dd and I never felt like the rav 4 was bad handling wise. Handles very flat and feels more confident than my Saab 9-2x on turn in.
the id3 isn’t even golf sized though, which is insane
they need to just have an EV Golf and they got all weird about it with the stupid “id” branding