We’re at the point now where upgrades won’t necessarily be big or instantly obvious, & any of them could entail letting go of someone we’re all fond of.
That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t make them though, harsh as it might seem.
Most stats this season show otherwise from passing percentage to save percentage to the amount of clean sheets. These stats also go back to last season where Raya was statistically one of the best keepers in the league.
Maybe the one nervy moment in the City game which was a bad back pass and the Lens game too Raya has been amazing.
I think the key part is that yes Raya had that nervy moment against City… But still stuck to the gameplan.
If that were Ramsdale - he maybe would have went away from the plan a little and starting kicking long and playing the ball without drawing an attacker onto him.
I do really like Ramsdale but that does seem to be his weakness in the eyes of Arteta
We started breaking through more, and eventually scored when we played long balls though. As committed as Raya was to the game plan, playing short didn’t really work except maybe it set up the long ball option better for the second half.
Except Raya’s long ball tactic is a directed ball to Jesus who is very impressive at retaining the ball in the air for his size and also when we had the likes of Partey, Tomi and Havertz on (all big players).
Raya does play it long yes but it’s not without reason
Jesus is great at ball retention, but not at winning aerial duels against fullbacks who tower over him. The long ball tactic only started coming off once we had Havertz subbed on to bang those balls into. Raya played some magnificent balls in the second half no doubt, but Ramsdale had talked about how Arteta had given him the freedom to play the ball he felt comfortable playing. Now it’s getting banged to death that Raya “stuck with the gameplan” of playing it short which he barely got away with. If he makes a mistake in that first half and we concede one or two then nobody would be mentioning this at all.
We dont have space for many big upgrades anymore so it will feel like this for any player going forward. Just earning another 2 or 3 points a season with a change of goalkeeper could mean the league last year.
This is it exactly, we’ve finally reached that point where upgrades won’t necessarily be big or instantly obvious, & some of them will entail letting go of someone we’re all fond of.
Have to make them all the same though, harsh as it may seem.
I dont see how anyone can watch us and not see how Raya is an improvement. Much better in the air, much better coming off his line, much better distribution
The thing is Raya is probably a big enough upgrade to warrant dropping Ramsdale. Weird you’d come to the opposite conclusion after so few games played by raya. You’re overly sentimental about a player that is statistically worse than Raya in several ways already and it’s strange to prefer a worse goalkeeper. I don’t care about Ramsdale enough to sacrifice the teams success.
After the save he made against spurs and how much more comfortable our back line seems in playing it to his feet- I remain adamant in the obvious opinion that raya is ahead of ramsdale in skill and what be brings to this team. You’re not thinking with your head.
There are multiple instances of ramsdale fucking up or nearly fucking up in his time between the posts for us. But never has he looked as assured as raya in the box. Just let it go mate
GKs make mistakes, Raya will end up making some if he continues to play for us. We will see what happens and whoever our no1 is I will back them, but I think Ramsdale will be a top goalkeeper.
Raya is much better with his distribution. That’s the key difference. We mightn’t see it immediately because it takes time for these changes to take place but we’re already seeing an improvement.
You implicitly admit that Raya is an upgrade and then judge that it’s “not worth it”. I don’t think Arteta and co are looking at it like that. They think even a small upgrade on Ramsdale is enough to warrant making the move for Raya. Or they disagree with you and think it’s a big ugprade.
I think people are far too emotional about Ramsdale, mostly because he’s a funny kind of bloke who loves to shithouse with the other teams fans. There wasn’t this level of sadness when it became clear that Leno was being shoved out.
I get what you’re saying but its fine margins in football, especially at the top. If Raya is even just a little bit better and adjusts the way we play slightly in our favour, then he has to be first choice. I think what people are finding so conflicting about this is that Ramsdale is so relatable, he’s just like a fan on the pitch, so maybe its that we feel less connected to the team, even though we’re winning just as much if not more. For me Raya is more of a calming prescence at the back despite the first half against City. And I think Arteta feels the same. Ramsdale’s passion could sometimes be his downfall, making the atmosphere more hostile than it needs to be. What City do is keep the opposition subdued and slowly take the game away from them and before you know it they’ve won and the opponents didn’t have a chance, they never give them hope. Ramsdale inadvertently makes games more open by geeing everyone up, then mistakes happen because actions aren’t deliberate and calm.
What does this even mean? Even if Raya is only a slight upgrade, the change should be made. We’ve been coddling players and holding onto personalities for years.
I’m saying that yes, the difference in ability is only slight, and Ramsdale also adds a lot of character to the team. Generally I admit that’s a fairly minor attribute, but it’s a pretty big boost to have that in your GK. I mean, you only have to listen to how much Roy Keane goes on about how important Schmeichel was for utd.
More importantly, I don’t think Ramsdale is the finished article and think he could become even better if he continues playing with us, surpassing Raya. He would also likely end up being England No1.
Off the pitch he’s great, but on the pitch I think Raya helps the mentality of the team more. Ramsdale gets a little nervy under pressure and resorts to kicking it long. Raya, despite mistakes, sticks to the same approach and it helps the team a lot.
We’re at the stage now where are only going to see infinitesimal improvements to players. Our team is that good. Any improvement is necessary to being able to get ahead of City. I fucking love Rammers but Raya improves us. It’s the same way I love Jesus but if we get a chance to sign Osimhen then we have to do it. Those players who may get dropped then either have to improve, accept a back up role or move on.
It’s exactly the same as the club having to prove they are good enough to keep the players. Football is about winning and sadly it’s a cutthroat business. Then again, the absolute worst thing that happens to Ramsdale is he sits on the neck earning more in a week than most of us do in a year.
The whole thing seems really strange, Mikel knows that training alone isn’t a big enough stage for these two to battle for the position. I’m sure by the end of the season Ramsdale will have played more on average, but seems wild that he’s not getting any chances to prove himself again in the league or the CL at the moment. Raya, for as great as the stats make him appear, has also had some really shaky moments as well and has been bailed out by our good run of form.
I am not sure if I become too old for the sentiments. I don’t really have any player that I want to succeed with us badly. I just want us to succeed. Players or managers don’t matter to me.
I don’t miss his over sharing in these interviews, it made the team look weak during the run-in last season. Save these for post career or private conversations with close friends, family, or your coaches.
I do miss Ramsdale’s shenanigans on the pitch, he’s an entertainer. He made some amazing saves for us, but also left me scratching my head on what were some perceived easy saves.
Ramsdale has the technique and skill to be amazing goalkeeper beyond Raya. I would never forget his amazing performances when we were on away games especially against liverpool last season.
It’s just his mentality. He just snooze on mid game for no reason especially at home games. He’s still young. Hopefully he will be ready
I actually don’t think he snoozes. I think he’s too emotional and lets that impact his play. With him starting we gave up early goals and right after Arsenal scored. Some of that is on the outfield players but I think he also is just too hyped and unfocused. I think he’s not great at getting defenders locked back in. Not all his fault but he wears his emotions on his sleeve and I think goal keepers need to be more stoic at times.
I know Raya’s a good goalkeeper, but man I miss Ramsdale
It’s a classic ‘my head gets it but my heart hates it’.
I totally get why Raya is getting starts but my god I so badly want Ramsdale to succeed with us.
The thing for me is Raya is not a big enough of an upgrade to make dropping Ramsdale worth it
-1.8 vs +1.4 goals prevented isn’t a big enough upgrade for you? What was it 77% vs like 64% save percentage isn’t a big enough upgrade?
His ball playing is another level.
We’re at the point now where upgrades won’t necessarily be big or instantly obvious, & any of them could entail letting go of someone we’re all fond of.
That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t make them though, harsh as it might seem.
Yeah this is my feelings too about the situation
Most stats this season show otherwise from passing percentage to save percentage to the amount of clean sheets. These stats also go back to last season where Raya was statistically one of the best keepers in the league.
Maybe the one nervy moment in the City game which was a bad back pass and the Lens game too Raya has been amazing.
I think the key part is that yes Raya had that nervy moment against City… But still stuck to the gameplan.
If that were Ramsdale - he maybe would have went away from the plan a little and starting kicking long and playing the ball without drawing an attacker onto him.
I do really like Ramsdale but that does seem to be his weakness in the eyes of Arteta
Exactly. He would boot the ball long 100% even if Mikel asked him to play short in situations like that.
We started breaking through more, and eventually scored when we played long balls though. As committed as Raya was to the game plan, playing short didn’t really work except maybe it set up the long ball option better for the second half.
Except Raya’s long ball tactic is a directed ball to Jesus who is very impressive at retaining the ball in the air for his size and also when we had the likes of Partey, Tomi and Havertz on (all big players).
Raya does play it long yes but it’s not without reason
Jesus is great at ball retention, but not at winning aerial duels against fullbacks who tower over him. The long ball tactic only started coming off once we had Havertz subbed on to bang those balls into. Raya played some magnificent balls in the second half no doubt, but Ramsdale had talked about how Arteta had given him the freedom to play the ball he felt comfortable playing. Now it’s getting banged to death that Raya “stuck with the gameplan” of playing it short which he barely got away with. If he makes a mistake in that first half and we concede one or two then nobody would be mentioning this at all.
He was very good at it against Gvardiol though
We dont have space for many big upgrades anymore so it will feel like this for any player going forward. Just earning another 2 or 3 points a season with a change of goalkeeper could mean the league last year.
This is it exactly, we’ve finally reached that point where upgrades won’t necessarily be big or instantly obvious, & some of them will entail letting go of someone we’re all fond of.
Have to make them all the same though, harsh as it may seem.
Jury is still out. Right now I don’t see Raya as an improvement but that could easily change and I trust Arteta.
I dont see how anyone can watch us and not see how Raya is an improvement. Much better in the air, much better coming off his line, much better distribution
I agree with this, while it’s tough to observe, Arteta’s decisions have to be respected
Yes he is.
The thing is Raya is probably a big enough upgrade to warrant dropping Ramsdale. Weird you’d come to the opposite conclusion after so few games played by raya. You’re overly sentimental about a player that is statistically worse than Raya in several ways already and it’s strange to prefer a worse goalkeeper. I don’t care about Ramsdale enough to sacrifice the teams success.
I doubt you’d be so adamant if Dec didn’t make that goaline clearance for Raya or if Alvarez slotted his chance.
After the save he made against spurs and how much more comfortable our back line seems in playing it to his feet- I remain adamant in the obvious opinion that raya is ahead of ramsdale in skill and what be brings to this team. You’re not thinking with your head.
There are multiple instances of ramsdale fucking up or nearly fucking up in his time between the posts for us. But never has he looked as assured as raya in the box. Just let it go mate
…
GKs make mistakes, Raya will end up making some if he continues to play for us. We will see what happens and whoever our no1 is I will back them, but I think Ramsdale will be a top goalkeeper.
To get big upgrade from Rammer’s level, we might need someone like Neuer or Casillas.
But he is. He was way better last year with Ben Mee and what’s his name.
Raya is much better with his distribution. That’s the key difference. We mightn’t see it immediately because it takes time for these changes to take place but we’re already seeing an improvement.
You implicitly admit that Raya is an upgrade and then judge that it’s “not worth it”. I don’t think Arteta and co are looking at it like that. They think even a small upgrade on Ramsdale is enough to warrant making the move for Raya. Or they disagree with you and think it’s a big ugprade.
I think people are far too emotional about Ramsdale, mostly because he’s a funny kind of bloke who loves to shithouse with the other teams fans. There wasn’t this level of sadness when it became clear that Leno was being shoved out.
I get what you’re saying but its fine margins in football, especially at the top. If Raya is even just a little bit better and adjusts the way we play slightly in our favour, then he has to be first choice. I think what people are finding so conflicting about this is that Ramsdale is so relatable, he’s just like a fan on the pitch, so maybe its that we feel less connected to the team, even though we’re winning just as much if not more. For me Raya is more of a calming prescence at the back despite the first half against City. And I think Arteta feels the same. Ramsdale’s passion could sometimes be his downfall, making the atmosphere more hostile than it needs to be. What City do is keep the opposition subdued and slowly take the game away from them and before you know it they’ve won and the opponents didn’t have a chance, they never give them hope. Ramsdale inadvertently makes games more open by geeing everyone up, then mistakes happen because actions aren’t deliberate and calm.
Are you saying you prefer Ramsdale for the sake sentimentality? I get it, but I don’t think we’re talented enough to have that luxury.
What does this even mean? Even if Raya is only a slight upgrade, the change should be made. We’ve been coddling players and holding onto personalities for years.
I’m saying that yes, the difference in ability is only slight, and Ramsdale also adds a lot of character to the team. Generally I admit that’s a fairly minor attribute, but it’s a pretty big boost to have that in your GK. I mean, you only have to listen to how much Roy Keane goes on about how important Schmeichel was for utd.
More importantly, I don’t think Ramsdale is the finished article and think he could become even better if he continues playing with us, surpassing Raya. He would also likely end up being England No1.
Off the pitch he’s great, but on the pitch I think Raya helps the mentality of the team more. Ramsdale gets a little nervy under pressure and resorts to kicking it long. Raya, despite mistakes, sticks to the same approach and it helps the team a lot.
We’re at the stage now where are only going to see infinitesimal improvements to players. Our team is that good. Any improvement is necessary to being able to get ahead of City. I fucking love Rammers but Raya improves us. It’s the same way I love Jesus but if we get a chance to sign Osimhen then we have to do it. Those players who may get dropped then either have to improve, accept a back up role or move on.
It’s exactly the same as the club having to prove they are good enough to keep the players. Football is about winning and sadly it’s a cutthroat business. Then again, the absolute worst thing that happens to Ramsdale is he sits on the neck earning more in a week than most of us do in a year.
The whole thing seems really strange, Mikel knows that training alone isn’t a big enough stage for these two to battle for the position. I’m sure by the end of the season Ramsdale will have played more on average, but seems wild that he’s not getting any chances to prove himself again in the league or the CL at the moment. Raya, for as great as the stats make him appear, has also had some really shaky moments as well and has been bailed out by our good run of form.
Tierney 2.0
Perfect way to describe it
I am not sure if I become too old for the sentiments. I don’t really have any player that I want to succeed with us badly. I just want us to succeed. Players or managers don’t matter to me.
He got us to UCL and didn’t get to play in it :(
Same. It’s those intangibles. So much heart.
Raya is better, but also about 4 years older, if ramsdale sticks with us he can definitely beat him to first choice in a couple of years
Mate, goalkeepers tend to peak in their 30s because of all the experience they gain
Raya is 28 and could very well be our starting GK for the next 6-8 years. Do you think Ramsdale will wait around for that?
No he’s likely leaving i know
Yeah goalkeepers age isn’t the same as an outfield player’s. Heck United bought Van Der Sar at like 34 or 35 and had him until he was like 41.
I don’t miss his over sharing in these interviews, it made the team look weak during the run-in last season. Save these for post career or private conversations with close friends, family, or your coaches.
I do miss Ramsdale’s shenanigans on the pitch, he’s an entertainer. He made some amazing saves for us, but also left me scratching my head on what were some perceived easy saves.
Ramsdale has the technique and skill to be amazing goalkeeper beyond Raya. I would never forget his amazing performances when we were on away games especially against liverpool last season.
It’s just his mentality. He just snooze on mid game for no reason especially at home games. He’s still young. Hopefully he will be ready
I actually don’t think he snoozes. I think he’s too emotional and lets that impact his play. With him starting we gave up early goals and right after Arsenal scored. Some of that is on the outfield players but I think he also is just too hyped and unfocused. I think he’s not great at getting defenders locked back in. Not all his fault but he wears his emotions on his sleeve and I think goal keepers need to be more stoic at times.