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  • shikavelli@alien.topB
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    1 year ago

    I remember at the start of the season lots of people here kept shoehorning Tierney into their starting 11 even though it was obvious Arteta didn’t fancy him. People would downvote and argue against me when I said this.

    Was it just because he was popular people were doing this or did they actually believe he was gonna be starter for Arteta?

    • redmkay@alien.topB
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      1 year ago

      The former.

      It’s just like how ALL the predicted XI or “best XI” teams omitted Partey. Literally every single one between July and early August.

      • ComprehensiveBowl476@alien.topB
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        1 year ago

        For about 90% of those teams, Partey wasn’t chosen because of “non-sporting reasons”. Saying “I just prefer Rice” was just an easy way to avoid starting the conversation again.

    • backofthanet@alien.topB
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      1 year ago

      I think because Timber came in, it could have arguably pointed towards the possibility of Tierney becoming the bomb on LB, the equivalent job to Ben White, just with us inverting from the opposite side. There was some logic to those ideas but it’s clear now we’re headed down the 4 CBs route eventually.

    • varro-reatinus@alien.topB
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      1 year ago

      It took some quite a while to realise and to come to terms with Zinchenko’s importance-- even whilst Tierney was doing a notable ‘Zinchenko impression’ whenever Zina was hurt last season.

      There are a small number of others who would argue that we should be starting Tierney, rather than that we would: some for less sensible reasons, some for more sensible ones. This wasn’t prediction but disagreement with Arteta-- which is of course reasonably possible, if difficult and likely fruitless.

      The most sensible version of that argument (which I’ll admit I still didn’t find persuasive) was that while Tierney offered much less in the buildup, he offered more in defence and in the final third: specifically in the effective width he offered, which would allow the LW (especially Martinelli) to play more consistently inside, and have had the LCM (Xhaka, now Rice orHavertz) sitting more or less where Zinchenko did and still does.

      Arteta clearly wants the wingers to hold width (and provide the lion’s share of our crossing) and values their movement inside more than their presence inside; he also clearly wants more diversity in our buildup, and really values what Zinchenko offers both there and in the final third, where he’d rather see the wingers and CMs attacking, and the FBs only overlapping and attacking the box occasionally. (Interestingly, while there is a general impression that White does this more, his per 90 crossing is almost identical to Zina’s.)

    • ComprehensiveBowl476@alien.topB
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      1 year ago

      We tried out 4 or 5 different backlines from pre-season until the first league game, and Tierney didn’t start in a single one lol.

      It was pure stubbornness from fans who liked him.

      • shikavelli@alien.topB
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        1 year ago

        It was obvious to me when he started picking Tomiyasu over him at LB even though Tomi is predominantly a RB/CB.

    • KSBrian007@alien.topB
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      1 year ago

      It’s blatant missing of hints enabled by echo chambers. You point out a glaring point and people make up arguments to go around it, heavy on the downvotes.

      I’m always of the view never trust a manager’s words 100% in press conferences. They barely play down any player. Just see their actions. People were seeing Kiwior, Xhaka, half-fit Zichenko, and Tomiyasu all playing LB and still maintaining that Tierney was part of our plans.

      Ramsdale was another example. Deep down, you’d know that Ramsdale was screwed but the sentimental part of us made up stories to convince ourselves otherwise. And just because Ramdale started the first few games, we thought we had “won” yet there was glaring proof that Raya was better.

      In a funny twist, even Arteta made up some weird tales about subbing off GKs yet he knew who would start.

      There are many additional hints in that team that either backfired because of injuries, failed transfers or even a player immensely improving.

      • iM-Blessed@alien.topB
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        1 year ago

        I don’t think he made up weird tales. I think his point was he genuinely wanted to sub the goalkeeper on a couple of occasions.

        Which makes ramsdale look even worse. There were probably times where arteta didn’t have enough faith in ramsdale to keep us in the game, or perhaps wanted Turner on for penalties, who knows. I remember having no faith in ramsdale against Lisbon. I was actually disguised that he couldn’t save one

      • shikavelli@alien.topB
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        1 year ago

        Yeah you put it perfectly. Really it’s more about what people want to believe rather than the reality of it.

        It’s interesting though because you can sort of gather hints from his decisions. For example dropping Gabriel and putting Ben White in CB earlier in the season makes me think White is higher in the pecking order but in my eyes Gabriel is the better CB so I disagree with Arteta where I think a lot of people don’t want to openly disagree with him.