Posting this because I think it’s an interesting examination of the overlap (or lack thereof) between atheists and general skeptics. It’s worth remembering that the term ‘atheism’ only means a rejection of theistic beliefs; non-theistic beliefs that are nonetheless irrational and unsupported by evidence are not relevant to the term. And yet one can easily see why there is an overlap between these two communities and why many atheists scoff at other atheists who profess belief in things like astrology, ghosts, reincarnation, etc.
I’m definitely one of those who doesn’t believe in anything supernatural, but I’ve certainly met atheists who do. It’s worth remembering the two groups aren’t synonymous.
Well guess it depends on what you mean by free will. If you mean it as agency then yes it clearly exists, I have more agency than a slave. If you mean in that a human behavior is not fully predictable then yes as of right now you still have it. If you mean in the supernatural sense then well there really is no evidence to support that.
There’s no reason to believe that you have agency. The slaves beliefs, attitudes and decisions are dictated by their circumstances, and those circumstances determine the slaves actions. You have different circumstances, but your decisions are no less governed by them. There is no “natural” fee will vs. “Supernatural” freewill. The idea that you have freewill, at all, is supernatural and faith based, yet many atheists do seem to believe in it anyway. Which was the topic of OPs link.
This is bull and you know it. If you honestly thought agency wasn’t a thing you would have zero problem giving it up and what’s more this is a very problematic view to have. You are seriously going to maintain that a sex slave has as much agency as some rich dude?
No. I’m saying that no one has any agency. Zero agency for anyone. Everything is the direct result of the moment that came before it. This includes your reaction to events, your thoughts, your feelings, your unseemly implication, and the actions you take in your life. If you would like to cause me to modify my view then you’d need to come up with a functional theory that explains how human beings are the exception in an otherwise deterministic universe and free will is possible. If I lost the comforting illusion of agency it would probably suck. Not having agency doesn’t mean we don’t suffer. That is a false dichotomy. Whatever circumstances we find ourselves in, be they good or bad, our reaction to those circumstances would be deterministic.
Fine you are redefining agency to suit your argument.
Ok what is the difference between a sex slave and me? What word do you want to redefine for that concept?
They are describing a wholely deterministic universe (one we don’t currently know the math for). If the universe is 100% deterministic, freewill is an illusion and the argument is moot. If it is not deterministic, the freewill probably exists and this argument is stupid.
Either free will exists it you are deterministically defined to believe it does. It’s a stupid argument, but still valid.
Wrong point I think. I’m explaining his argument and why his argument is stupid.