PS: The point here is NOT that poor people shouldn’t have kids, it’s that no one should be having kids without having the basics of childcare covered, which necessitates widespread systemic, societal, and economic change so that no parent needs to worry about those basics, and kids can grow up in secure, healthy environments. I completely forgot to mention this when I originally posted it, and that’s my bad.
I think community is missing. You can provide material things and the child still be neglected.
Having children is biologically safest for parents and children at younger ages. Having children young isn’t the issue. Having a system that hoards wealth for a master class at the expense of society is. We need to abort the billionaire class - it shouldn’t exist. Resource hoarding creates poverty.
i think a good question to ask yourself is: would you like to be born in today’s time? if not, then probably neither does your child.
Feel free to end it i guess. Oh no? Oh ok, but you want to decide for others?
You suck
It’s not ending a life, it’s not breeding
You’re a classic example of a stupid breeder, incapable of anything more than a childish, knee-jerk reaction bereft of thought
Lmao. Talk about dragging the ladder up after oneself.
Suicide ain’t equivalent to never existing in the first place.
Many people have and we have the most depressed people ever? Thanks for the shove to them I guess? Just because the people who haven’t don’t want to doesn’t mean they want to grow up in current times. Would I rather exist or be tiktok obsessed depressed and ai-addicted? Legitimately hard to say. Lucky for me I’m none of those, but it would be a near unwinnable battle for my kids.
Thinking about childrens’ futures breaks my heart
Well the main reason you shouldn’t have kids is because this world is going down to shit at an accelerating pace.
Between climate collapse, life extinction, resources exhaustion and AI dystopia, where do you see your kids in 20, 30, 40 years? Dead from starvation? Enslaved by oligarchs? Can you see a good life fort them in the horizon?
My kid is a teenager and I already feel like she’s living the best of their life already. From their adult life, I can only see it go down.
Personally, I think future generations are fine as long as they apply themselves and hobby hop and as long as we reinforce and appreciate the tenacity behind their hobby hopping.
When I was growing up there was no 3D printing, you weren’t able to just make a dropshipping hobby and advertise on youtube like it was fucking nothing, I think twitch was just becoming a thing but the amount of money and influencers wasn’t like it is now, hell influencers weren’t a thing. It also looks like people adapt easily in today’s world. I’m not worried about anything, they all have their adaptations and ways of doing their lives and that’s fine.
I think it’s good to leave a door of hope open for the next generations.
But as I’ve always said: What could get worse, can always get better. 😀
your kids
From their adult life, I can only see it go down.
Gotta keep the whimsy going
PS: The point here is NOT that poor people shouldn’t have kids,
You may not think that’s the point, but that is the ultimate effect of your words.
I’d see it more like “Poor people shouldn’t exist”.
But as in “We need a society where nobody is considered poor and everybody is provided for”
No, this interpretation is too convenient for them.
Stop creating lives you’re knowingly unprepared to provide for.
This is a personal indictment, not a systemic one. It specifically treats births as the problem, not wages.
I do not have children, nor do I plan to—I have way too many video games to play. However, I am not so stupidly suicidal as to suggest that it is morally superior of me to be a zoo panda—or to pretend that it is global warming stopping me from participating in the same desperate struggle for life that my great ancestors did when driving their feet through mud and soil to chase antelope.
This was a better point (in the US) before Roe v Wade got overturned honestly
So the most selfish thing that people can do… is only available to the impoverished?
The most selfish thing that the system can do is let children live in poverty.
Fuck this billionaire bootlicking bullshit.
Stating that it’s fucked up to bring a child into this world that you cannot materially provide for is not billionaire boot licking bullshit. I’m guessing you’re one of the poor people that’s having kids that you can’t materially provide for or you wouldn’t be taking it so personally. If you cannot materially provide for your children you’re an unfit parent. Why are you advocating for unfit parents to have children? Why do you want children to suffer?
You specifically need to pay higher taxes.
Yeah and fund social services.
Instead of making posts about poor people shouldnt have kids, why not direct that towards criticizing capitalism? or criticizing the education system for not teaching them about safe sex? I swear these childfree coms are always the same.
Yes those realities are created by capitalism, but not every baby in a poor family is an accident. Plenty of people on the planet have purposely decided to bring a child into this world even though they are financially incapable to provide for that child, even though they fully well know that government assistance isn’t enough or doesn’t even exist. Like I used to live in a neighborhood where lots of poor people live, and many families there have 4 - 6 children just because they believe their religion dictates they should have large families even though they live in a small two bedroom apartment. Guess what, most of those kids do not escape poverty and repeat the cycle and some even resort to crime and I’m not talking about petty theft I’m talking about serious organized crime where innocent people die. So not only did they pass on the hardship to the next generation they also multiplied it and spread the suffering beyond their own family and left the problems for society to solve.
This doesnt read to me as oops babies, it’s people who want kids even though they can’t afford to take care of them. I agree with the other part but it’s like telling a woman she shouldn’t go out at night, it sucks that you have to do that but that’s the reality you live in. You can’t put another person through hardship because you wanted kids.
“Poor people should go extinct”
“Poor people should expand.”
One way or the other isn’t that the goal? We should lift people out of poverty right? Why should poverty persist?
We absolutely should but that’s a conversation for a future-minded community.
I mean considering the alternative is they don’t have access to food, housing, healthcare, and are essentially forced by circumstance to either become criminals or throw themselves into the meat grinder.
Now I don’t even like arguing this anymore since reproductive rights in my neck of the woods have gone away, but you can’t seriously think that giving a kid a miserable, painful life is better than not having a kid at all
I can, actually. Mostly because even growing up in poverty is rarely just a “miserable, painful life” even somewhere like Burkina Faso but also because collectively providing for the next generation is a thing that we should be constantly pushing for, culturally and publicly. Because without a future there is nothing to fight for, without youth there is nobody to care for the old, without fresh eyes there is no passion for change.
It’s not someone else’s responsibility to provide a reason for you to fight / live, care for you when you’re old, or help you change things you don’t like. None of those things benefits the kid being born.
Having kids is morally wrong.
It’s not someone else’s responsibility to provide a reason for you to fight / live, care for you when you’re old, or help you change things you don’t like.
It’s called society, the thing we all live in that only works because of collective will and effort.
None of those things benefits the kid being born.
Giving up now is worse for them.
Having kids is morally wrong.
Morality has nothing to do with it. Not a single atom in the universe consented to its own existence.
I can’t help it. I’m glad to be infertile. Children born right now would inevitably face the extreme results of a climate crisis, depleting fresh water stores, the global sociopolitical breakdown currently happening in favor of far right fascists funded by billionaires, and everything that comes with that.
I feel we are past the point of no return and am confident that I will probably die before the absolute worst of it, but my generation’s children would not. I have never been more afraid for children in my life, and there are many in my own little village. I just do not and cannot foresee a future where this gets better, with as powerless as we are against surveillance and military technology. As nihilistic as it sounds, we are speedrunning extinction and the guard rails are gone. I do not want to see children suffer for it, and especially not my own.
If you truly believed that everything can only get worse from here I don’t know why you’re still here, frankly.
Edit: I’ll elaborate. You will die before the worst of it. We all will. I went to school for ecology, I know how grim things are. Worsening climate crises are going to push desperate people out of increasingly hot and arid regions into places with more fresh water and that will cause terrible conflicts. We’re driving a mass extinction event that’s making the leaderboards. (I don’t think we’re hitting K-T numbers without nuclear war but it’s gonna be bad.)
But we also, as a species, bounced back from a 98% population loss that lasted a hundred thousand years. And that was Stone Age technology. I have the utmost faith in our adaptability and I’m pretty confident humanity will survive our own bullshit. Further, I don’t think morality enters into it. Life is amoral. Existence is amoral. The ability to contemplate the nature of existence does not elevate us above that amorality. So I’m not throwing in the towel.
Whew that’s a windy way to tell me to kill myself huh, and to your elaboration: someone else’s kids can get knocked back to the Stone Age to repopulate the earth if we’re as like cockroaches as you believe. Not mine though.
No like why are you here, why bother with society if it’s doomed and miserable? Why make connections that will amount to nothing? Why not live as a hermit or descend into unbridled hedonism?
Mr. Strawman, is that you?
Unironically, yes. So should rich people. If we do that one first we can do the other one pretty easily.
Fuck off eco-fascist <3
I’m anarcho-stupid thank you very much.
No I understand it. Thinking further than yourself and thinking that government assistance and family will help you out. Diapers and formula are expensive. School, school supplies. The clothes they need as they grow, the food they’re gonna need, the potential therapies that may be needed. Doctors appointments that sometimes insurance a doesn’t cover. Then you might have a child born with an incurable disease that you might give your whole financial being trying to treat.
The amount of emotional availability that’s needed, the patience and god forbid they die!!! Plus it’s a lifetime thing it never ends they don’t turn 21 and leave you forever it’s a forever thing. If you’re still in contact with your parents, how many people are in their mid 30’s who are still on good terms with their parents? Who do you still call or go to when all goes to shit?
Like fuck man!!!
No I will not attempt to provide a life to something. Hell I can hardly afford myself. If I could provide financial reliability and if I wasn’t in the living situation I’m in now, maybe but even still, I don’t have that emotional expenditure and I know I’m not meant to raise a human and I’m okay with that.
I like being able to do whatever I want whenever I want, spending money on myself and I am a very detached person sometimes… I wouldn’t ever want to create an offspring only to know the life I would be able to provide isn’t of sufficient quality.
I don’t think poor people should have kids because I don’t think anyone should have kids because all humans should just agree that this shit sucks, and then throw a massive global rager until the world runs out of drugs and booze and then we should blow up the planet and be done with it.
This is literally the best solution for everything I’ve ever heard.
Or maybe just off ourselves - not the planet. Ducks and dogs and such seem like they have a grip on living. It’s us who can’t just find an equilibrium with the natural world that sustains our existence. We are the psychos creating systems that destroy and oppress to appease non-biologically necessary delusions like ego.
I think it’s morally correct for Ruby to fuck off
Go play in traffic, you window-licker
Well poor people should NOT have kids, because kids are not a good that you have to suit your needs.
Growing up poor stunts you severely. Make a good nest egg first.
The point here is NOT that poor people shouldn’t have kids, it’s that no one should be having kids without having the basics of childcare covered
That’s just false. It’s literaly what the last sentence says. Otherwise they would advocate for child welfare instead.
I’m pretty sure it is advocating for child welfare. Like, that’s the whole subtext of it.
That is not the subtext of it. That is a Motte OOP would retreat to after being challenged on their anti-poor-people advocacy.
It literally specifically says they’re not advocating against poor people having children and specifically that it refers to people that knowingly have children that they cannot materially provide for. Then started that systemic change ought to occur to prevent this nonsense discussion in the first place. It’s the subtext of the sentiment and the plain text of the follow-up. The intention is plainly stated.
Are you referring to this?
PS: The point here is NOT that poor people shouldn’t have kids, it’s that no one should be having kids without having the basics of childcare covered, […]
First of all, these two sentences mean the same thing. If anyone is supposed to wait, then we’re talking about discouraging poor people from having kids.
Secondly, this text is not from the image. I have fuck all to say to this reposter on Lemmy—at least I think. They want more welfare, I want more welfare; it seems like we agree. I have no beef with them.
Come on. They literally state “love does not pay for childcare” instead of advocating free childcare. And the subtext is falsely trying to reframe it, which was my whole point.
