I’ve been caught out in a recent post I made of a Youtube DJ mix that used AI art in the video (I didn’t actually watch the video: that’s on me). I’ve also seen some comments about album artwork being AI in some posts.
From a personal standpoint: I don’t want to hear/see generative AI stuff, and I don’t want to intentionally promote it. However, it’s impossible to determine with 100% accuracy if something uses gen AI, so any kind of approach to monitoring it is going to be best-effort.
I’d like to hear this community’s thoughts. Would you like there to be a community policy for the exclusion of gen AI content?
I also vote for banning AI music from this sub.
As far as AI art goes, I’m also mostly against it, but don’t really care if I see it here - it’d just make me personally skip the song alltogether, but if the music is real, then they should get a chance for visibility.
I also don’t want to hear generated song, so I’d like to see a policy banning AI content. Mistakes will happen though and that’s OK. I’d rather see some AI stuff posted and flagged rather than folks feeling afraid to post anything.
Generated artwork is a tricky one though. Industrial has always been subversive with using extreme imagery to expose things. I can sort of see how AI art can be undesirable but also fitting the aesthetic and concept. I guess if done right it could be OK, but that’s really subjective. Slop art should be right out though.
Definitely against AI music. If someone accidentally posts something that was AI generated (& it later gets removed) that’s fine and all, but submitting that type of music on purpose would be a bit much. Maybe have a separate community for AI slop music if people want that sort of thing.
I’m kind of neutral on AI artwork, to me it’s not a big deal if the musician themselves did something like that to include with their music. But it does trigger a lot of people so if that also gets removed it’s not a big deal & most legit musicians aren’t going to publish music with associated AI art anyway.
If someone wants to listen to and share AI music, that’s fine, but they need to do it in a separate community.
My suggestion is to add a line to the sidebar saying that AI-generated music is discouraged here.
Thinking through some scenarios:
- going to one of those GenAI music sites and giving the prompt: “make a song about …” and posting the results here.
- taking a human-made song (without GenAI) and using GenAI to make a music video
- using GenAI to make an image for a human-made song (e.g. as an album cover)
- a human authoring a song using tools that involve LLMs (or other types of deep neural networks), e.g. filters, noise reduction plugins, etc.
There’s a separate consideration: a) is it obvious to the listener/viewer that GenAI was used or b) not.
Now my personal beliefs are: for case 4, those sorts of tools were used before and the new algorithms work better; GenAI adds ethical problems but the musician may not even know what algorithm is being used. For cases 2 and 3 I look down on them but I can see why a talented musician might use them, though I’d think they were wrong to do so and I might comment negatively about it.
Case 1 is the problematic one, right? Especially if it’s not obvious that the musician is not real. For that reason in my posts I try to find some evidence that the musician is human and have recently been posting links to that evidence, and there’ve been a couple songs I didn’t post bc I didn’t find that evidence. But I don’t think everybody should be required to investigate in that way.
Also, I don’t believe that being pro-GenAI is an evil in the same way that bigotry (such as sexism, homophobia, racism, etc) is. But I will (probably?) downvote it and call it out if I see it. That’s why, if others agree, I believe there should be a post discouraging it but not a prohibition.
DISCLAIMER: if the situation changes, e.g. we start getting spammed with numerous GenAI songs, then reconsider.
If it’s made by fascists, 100% ban.
If it’s generated on solar punk devices, then it’s technically gothcore witchcraft, and should be allowed.I think most of us do not want to support fascists, and that is the primary concern. But I don’t mind goth synthesized melodies: that’s the entire point of our craft.
I like the AI art, I don’t like the music. With that said, it’s not easy to tell them apart sometimes. I will do my best to keep from posting AI music. I don’t make that promise for the art.
If they’re open about the use, audio or visual I’d say let it stay. We had an artist post here that did some gen AI for a video. Video making not their expertise and unable to afford someone to write direct edit etc.
Even audio to an extent as long as it’s openly identified as such. The tools are only going to get better, and not going away. Good honest creative use can still be enjoyed and useful. But it needs to be honest. I think a lot of the backlash is the disingenuousness and manipulation. Rightfully so. No one wants to be lied to or misled generally.
I think a lot of the backlash is due to: 1) most/all of the LLMs were built with data that was taken without permission, 2) the GenAI companies are pushing “AI” as a solution where it’s not needed 3) the negative environmental impact, 4) the dangers of the AI economic “bubble” (bonus: driving up RAM and SSD prices). For more info see !fuck_ai@lemmy.world and !sneerclub@awful.systems.
The thing is. If I draw or sketch, I’m influenced by what I’ve trained on as well. I’ve absolutely done sketches in the style of Ed Roth’s Custom Culture Creatures. Imitation is the greatest from of flattery.
All modern art and culture builds on the past. So I’d disagree somewhat on that point.
All the other points are more the real meat of the issue. The who, the why and the how. Though, I would point out that plenty are working on more efficient dedicated inference hardware. So the how and it’s environmental impact becomes more an issue of the who and why. And absolutely when it comes to who and why. Fuck each and every one of them.
I also feel the use of artists’ creative works in the training data for the major models is unethical. I doubt all those artists consented to their work being used that way.
Well. Future generations train on the creations of the past. The unethicality is more the intent of those that use it. To devalue and displace those that created the things for a machine that can spit out scrambled up facsimiles of the thing. It’s the Luddites vs the looms. Luddites didn’t hate them. The Luddites rose up to destroy them because the textile shop owners intended to use them to take away the workers means of supporting themselves.
There are AI tools that are ethically trained as well. Though they aren’t the majority of what’s being used for sure. But adobe for instance has done that for photoshop’s AI tools.
Absolutely no to labels manufacturing AI artist etc to undercut or push out real artists to increase their profits. But AI as a tool for better or worse it’s not going anywhere. I can at least respect those that are honest with their audience.
It’s the Luddites vs the looms
I always thought using the term Luddite as an insult completely missed the point 😉
Future generations train on the creations of the past
I think that’s a nuanced difference, or at least, I see it that way. Artists are inspired and influenced by what came before them, but they are also awarded both rights to and responsibility for what they create. If an artist plagiarises someone else’s work, they can be held accountable.
Gen AI muddies that. An artist using a gen AI model has no knowledge of what that model was trained on. The organisation that provides the model does, but they are at a remove from any process that results in an output, and the major AI platforms are openly hostile to being held accountable for the output of their models. What about the model itself? if we accept it’s using a creative process to produce output, should it be afforded rights and responsibilities to what it produces? that opens up a whole ethical debate too.
Those organizations absolutely should be held responsible. But the lack of “their” responsibility is what will keep them from really being a success long term. No smart business or individual would use them. Especially if they’re to be the ones held responsible for the AI companies plagiarism.
And I’ve seen some small signs that we might be hopeful about. There are reports that Spotify who has a massive AI music and AI artists problem along with botted listeners. From people trying to make a quick buck with AI. Apparently Spotify has said that of verified real listeners less than even 1% are listening to known AI artists or AI music. This may ultimately be a problem mostly for these big media companies. Or those of us such as the DJs constantly on the lookout for new music and new artists. To be clear, I have found far more basic or unoriginal artists than I’ve ever found confirmed AI artist.
Ironically, I think industrial music would be one of the few areas AI-generated music would actually be good at LOL. But I think industrial, like goth, post-punk, or many of the other niche genres related to this community. Are some of the least likely to be targeted by such groups. There isn’t a lot of money to be made or cred to be gained long term.
An example of a small unrelated anecdote I recently ended up working on a 3D model of slop origin as a commission. They, like AI music, fall apart under the slightest scrutiny. Because the program is focused on loosely replicating patterns, rather than actually making something. Truly some lovecraftian body horror. Extra digits, strangely warped limbs. Honestly by the time I sculpted out the worst of it. I could have blocked in a completely new mesh and largely finished the detail of it in the same amount of time. Even more egregious, the simple mesh would still need to retopologizing as it was over 3 million polygons for something so simple. Completely unusable for anything but really basic static renders or garten of ban ban character models.
We should not be promoting AI music nor art
Related:
From the comments, the general consensus seems to be:
- no entirely AI generated music
- AI artwork/videos are okay/tolerated
I’ve updated the community info to reflect this.
Removed by mod
