Air conditioner then: 2 kilowatts / ton
Air conditioner now: 0.4 kilowatts / ton
Can’t we have like .8 kw / ton thats twice as reliable?
Reliability exists, just don’t buy crap. Invest and reap the efficiency. Personally, I’ve spent years with mini-splits and never had this filter problem crap, everything just works and for less than half the cost.
What is planned obsolescence?
A way to destroy the earth for temporary profits while guaranteeing the future generations to be screwed because we exploited all the resources in chase of a quick buck?
I think Ziltoid was doing a jeopardy, but it was nice to answer the question either way.
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You can have a super efficent one that’s reliable. Not gonna be super cheap, though. But they exist, as server rooms and critical infrastructure has to be cooled as well. Mitsubishi Heavy makes stuff like that for example.
can someone explain this for the uneducated?
It’s another one of those weird non-metric units. In the world of air conditioning (or cooling in general), a “ton” is the amount of cooling you’d get from melting a ton (a short ton - that is 2000 pounds) of ice that’s already near its melting point. Air conditioners are usually rated in tons per day, with 1-5 tons about right for a typical apartment or house, depending on things like square footage and climate.
In the world of air conditioning (or cooling in general), a “ton” is the amount of cooling you’d get from melting a ton (a short ton - that is 2000 pounds) of ice that’s already near its melting point.
I’m the kind of person to argue the merits of the imperial system, and even I think that’s bonkers.
What do you think the metric system is based on? It’s the exact same thing.
0c is the temperature of water freezing (at sea level, etc.etc.)
100c is the temperature that water boils.
1 kilocalorie is the energy needed to raise the temperature of 1kg of water one degree.
You have to define energy in some way, and almost all of it is related to how it affects water.
What do you think the metric system is based on?
Fingers.
Calories are not metric. And there are even two calories. Not as bad as 10 different inches, but use Joule(metric unit, Newton*meter) instead.
(side note, thank you for the explanation)
Ffs USA. YOU’RE ALREADY USING kW, JUST GO FULL METRIC ON POWER. Please I’m begging you.
COP = heat moved / power input
kW_out / kW_in = dimensionless value
An air-conditioner with a COP of 2 moves 2 kW of heat for every 1 kW of electrical power you put in.
This hurts so much to find out because the US is already using BTU/hr 🤢. What do you need yet another unit for power for?
You’re using W, BTU/hr and ton/day?
Like. Why are you doing this?
😭 look what they did to my boy (units)
That makes sense actually. Thanks!
It’s another one of those weird non-metric units. In the world of air conditioning (or cooling in general), a “ton” is the amount of cooling you’d get from melting a ton (a short ton - that is 2000 pounds) of ice that’s already near its melting point.
Wut? I though it was unit of power per mass of machine. Why, just why?
He’s saying they improved in efficiency
In Air Conditioning a “ton” = 12000BTU of heat removal per hour.
It originates from the amount of heat removal over a period of 24 hours needed to freeze a ton of water at 0C:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ton_of_refrigeration
A quick idea of what cooling/heating you need is your square footage (assuming 8ft ceilings) x 20.
So 600 sq ft of area would need a 1 ton AC or 12,000BTU. Again complicated by outdoor temperature, insulation of the home, and other factors.
Anyway, what the op was saying, for the same tonnage (cooling capacity) old ACs used a ton of electricity. Newer split units are crazy efficient.
Like in 2000 the new requirement for a home AC was a SEER (cooling vs electric usage) of 10. The higher the rating, the less electricity used for a given cooling capacity.
Nowadays you can get the cheaper split units which have ratings of 19-23 SEER2. So they use half or less than half the electricity for the same cooling. Also they can work as heaters in a pinch.
Edit: Quick googling shows that ACs from the 80s could be as inefficient as 6-7 SEER. So a modern 21 SEER2 unit would use 1/3rd the electricity!
WTF BTU is? Bitcoin fork?
This funny meme is also a good example of survivorship bias. There are both good and shitty ACs from both eras. We’re just only comparing to the good old ACs because the shitty ones already broke.
The same seems to apply for old music as well - only the “good stuff” survives and everything else is forgotten
While I agree with you past generations weren’t swamped with infinite selections of shitty versions of products at their fingertips. Think it feels worse now because it’s harder to find the good stuff these days
It’s had a lot to do with manufacturers trying to cater to a certain price point where they can maximize sales and profits, rather than simply trying to make the best product they can make. It leads to a lot of cheap garbage.
That’s a very valid point. Today’s ease of access to a wider variety of sources is vastly different to the pre-internet era of appliance shopping. Back then, we just went to the nearest Sears or some other appliance warehouse to try them out. They’d have just a few different models available, so those were all your options. The other method of purchase was through direct shipping catalogs, where you hoped the product you bought didn’t actually suck.
That is true, although earlier generations didn’t have access to as many different variations of a product, most of the ones available to them were the high-end versions. The trade-off is that they costed much more due to being a more premium product and being new on the market.
Pretty sure all of my old apartments had the shitty window units, none of them ever worked.
It’s true with most appliances.
The problem is it is difficult to know today which appliances will still be functioning in 20 years.
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Drain line can clog, but as with all dad stuff, good maintenance wins the day
Even better, they now sell window units that drape over the sill on both sides for less noise, less blocking the window, no danger of falling, window closes farther
You forgot about the part where it is 70% asbestos and radioactive coolant. 10/10 best ACs ever.
Coolant made of uranium? Where to stuff asbestos in a AC?
Can’t imagine the bill to get that sucker recharged.
That old, toxic refrigerant just hit different
The new stuff just doesn’t taste the same.
You can do a 1:1 swap of refrigerant, and if I remember correctly, the new stuff actually works better.
Heck, early refrigeration systems used friggen ammonia as it’s refrigerant of choice. Works good at being compressed and evaporated, shame about it being poison.
Didn’t know that, I was thinking of the CFCs (chlorofluorocarbons) we used like 30/40 years ago
The reason those took off so well is cause Freon, while awful for ozone, is significantly safer than the previous usage of ammonia.
Refrigerators and air conditioners just compress a gas into a liquid, moves it through piping, and then decompresses the gas. When compressing the gas (a refrigerant), it’ll want to turn liquid, but has to burn off heaps of excess energy, done as heat energy. That’s done in the part of an AC unit that hangs outside. The liquid is then pumped to the other side of the machine, relieved of pressure, and sent through tons of piping with heat grates and fans for dissipating the cold air it generates. When evaporating from liquid to gas it needs to take in heaps of energy, so it’ll draw heat from the air, cooling it. The gas is pumped back to the compressor on the other side of the unit to repeat the process over and over. Propane is really good at being compressed like that, and it has minimal effect on global warming, so it can be used as a freon alternative. Just yanno, don’t use it in your car’s AC.
My man just casually explained the refrigerator cycle, well done
Deffo gotta thank Technology Connections on YouTube for making it so simple to understand.
Yeah, that’s how I learned it too, but its funny how he has 4 40min videos about it, or things that use it
Weird my mini split is a workhorse. It doesn’t give two shits about dust, dirt, ice, rain, or snow. It has heated the house in single digits and cooled the house in triple digits (both F). 10/10. Best $1800 I ever spent.
For real, mini splits are insanely powerful. They’ll make a room frigidly too cold in nanoseconds if you ask them to.
I wouldn’t say nanoseconds… might be my system with multiple units,but one can take a minute to get its bearings. Once on though I really only need one unit for the whole place despite having 3.
But the first needs at least two power lines to work.
CoP of negative 10.
*220V
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pathetic thing that looks like WALL-E’s girlfriend attached to a clothes drier vent. If you get five feet away from it you’re dying
Thank you so much for that link! It was wildly pertinent to my life
I just moved into a new place this weekend. It has an addition not connected to central A/C. Instead, it has a little window unit, but also a (one hose) portable unit.
I was using the portable one, because I haven’t had time to block the hole that runs outside (especially from critters climbing through). So I hoped that the air blowing out would discourage anything from climbing in
And now I will be taking the time to properly block the hole where the duct runs, because I immediately switched back to the window unit after watching that video
So thank you again! It’s the first time I ever encountered a portable unit, so I knew nothing. And coincidentally, I just moved and had the option to use either the window unit or the portable
Just ridiculously relevant to my life as of this weekend! And ya just saved me money on electricity. You’re awesome for that link my friend
I hoped that was a Technology Connections link, and I was not disappointed.
Some significant amount of the heat that should go outside, instead gets put back into the room through the “clothes dryer vent”.
Given the cost premium, and space used, by floor standing ACs, they’re really not worth it if you have an option.
I covered mine with a mylar emergency blanket and it’s dropped the temp quite a bit. Not perfect, but it works in Texas
Every time I’ve gone to move to a new place, central air has been my top priority. I refused to consider homes that relied on window units, swamp coolers, or those floor units that are basically a scam.
I live somewhere with cold winters and hot summers though, maybe I would feel different somewhere with more mild seasons.
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German here, I don’t get that joke. What the fuck’s an Air Conditioner? Some time of specail air you put in your hair after using shampoo?
Yeah, it’s for when your air is too flat and frizzy.
@EmoDuck @The_Picard_Maneuver
Don’t many German cars have “airco”? 😅
Anyway, in rare cases it’s to moisturize the inside air, some are able to heat, but most of them are used to cool down temperatures in a room or building (like in supermarkets in summer) and are a common thing in resident houses in the hotter parts of the world…
I think it gets its name from being able to condition the air temperature… 😅jesus christ, germans know what air conditioning is
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@JudahBenHur Yeah, by the time I realized it might have been sarcasm, the toot was sent and I was already doing something else… 😅
Oh, well, somebody’s gotto be the idiot sometimes, might as well be me… 😅😂
in middle school I raised my hand and asked why the evaporation from the oceans didnt rain down into freshwater lakes and make them salt water also and I think about that about twice or three times a year, I’m in my 40s
But that’s a very good question for a child?
I was like 13 ;_;
Right? I can think of far more embarrassing things I’ve asked as a child.
In elementary school I once asked how chicken eggs get fertilized if their shell is hard (we’d just learned about salmon spawning)…the look my teacher gave me still lives rent free in my head.
Dehumidify
To add to this, reverse cycle (aka heat pump) air conditioners will dehumidify the air during cooling operation as humidity in the air tends to condense on the (cold) indoor unit coil and leaves via the drain pipe.
These air conditioner units usually have the modes; cool, heat, fan only & dehumidify, which is why they arent just called ‘air coolers’ or ‘heaters’.Doesn’t work on your mom though, still wet
So on the whole somee are able to heat thing is going to be dependent on where you live, put where I love most heatpumps (air conditioners) that are whole home units or minisplits are reversible heatpump meaning they can both heat and cool
Not sure if this is the correct word for it (really bad at German) but I think the word for it is Klimaanlage.
My old AC works great. I just wish I could hear other things while it’s running.
We missed out on the freon black market that’s consumed by cyborg men in vans.
I understood this reference.
With the high average age and tech fetish inclination of this userbase, I figure there are several folks that have read Snow Crash more than once.
We need to figure out how to retrofit those old machines to be as efficient as the new ones, and be clean and pigeon free. Then we can keep them around.
They still make those old style ones and they are energy star certified.
The ones that look like the new one are what’s used with heat pumps here.
Is there any reason a window unit couldn’t be a heat pump? My understanding is the difference is just about a single valve to reverse the direction of the coolant.
I thought it was just that it was too difficult to fit all the parts efficiently in such a small box
When Tesla first publicized 3d printing the “octovalve” as a piece to complex to manufacture traditionally, the claim was that it made the heat pump much more compact. There was even a rumor going around that they might use it to enter the home heat pump market. Their work in making heat pumps compact enough for cars could really make a difference, however I image home stuff is much more price sensitive
Mini-splits do exist in window-mountable form, although they haven’t really caught on (yet). Technology Connections covers alternatives like that at the end of his portable ac episode https://youtu.be/_-mBeYC2KGc
From my understanding is a heat pump needs to be fully outside of the house.
Uhh, old style is heat pump too. Unlesz you are referring water evaporation.
Which air conditioner are you talking about specifically that shuts off when it gets dust on its filter?
It’s not that they shut off, it’s that many units are sized so questionable for the square footage they are able to cool that the filter being dusty or clean is the difference between being able to cool the room to the target temperature or not.
Right so people bought cheap and now are upset that it doesn’t do the work.
Yep.
The neat thing is that with mini split technology, cheap AC actually exists.
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Yes the older models are the little engine that could. (come to think of it most of you are too young to get that reference). The expensive big one threw a belt and became useless after four years.
But I moved to a place where I’m on the shady side of the building and as a result all I need are fans.
There’s no belts on ductless mini splits lol
You might be about 15 years behind technology
Those big ones with the pipe piece, the standing ones, have belts.
I have no idea what you’re talking about, and I work with these things. Standing ones?
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I miss my old really noisy air conditioner window unit. I loved the noise from it, it drowned out other sounds and I got better sleep. My room air filters generate some decent white noise effects, but it’s just not the same.
The best part about window units is the dank freezer smell they emit. Sometimes I just stand there and smell it while enjoying the cool air on my face.
Ozon?
Mold and mildew.
Legionella
