I’m back and honestly, I’m only madder than I was two days ago because I’ve had time to mull the bullshit over. Link, for those of y’all out of the know.
It appalls me that any community of people that claim to be marxists, that claim to follow the scientific method in all things that would contribute to the betterment of the world we’re forced to share, that claim to be really out here performing praxis and making differences in their communities; it fucking galls me that a community like everything I just described can still look at a still on-going pandemic and still have such a tacit anti-mask stance.
More of you admitted to not masking than I’m comfortable with and y’know what, maybe we could’ve left it at that. It’d have been a form of liberalism to not dig my heels in on that and take a swing at that mindset because again: I took on a new disability in the wake of a COVID infection. My partner took on a new disability in the wake of their infection. I was put in a hospital bed, my grandparents were put on respirators, so many members of my family and my community were genuinely out of commission and a good number of us really had to question if we were going to make it to see the next morning under those infections-- but maybe, we could’ve left it at that.
But then, I have to see you people not only trying to justify it, but taking up for smuggards who just think it’s all some big fuckin joke, like they’re their favorite podcast crackerbro getting to have their own personal Matt Christman moment. I expect “u mad bro” smuglord fuckery out of crackers who can’t even be trusted to properly wipe their asses after they shit, or to wash their hands after doing so. And worse, you expect me to not be heated about smug-assed crackers making light of genuinely-disabling infections after the fact.
I stand ten motherfucking toes down on what I said to Cantaloupe Ass and Ghost of Faso; any plague rat motherfucker who wants to take issue with how I feel about people who won’t mask can catch the same cases my partners and my family caught. It’s a whole lot of you motherfuckers that are so unserious, so emphatically not my comrades that it sickens me seeing you call yourselves so.
Do better. Deuces.
As @CriticalResist8@lemmygrad.ml stated here, the reason you received a temp ban was because you told someone (from a comrade server) that you hope they get covid. That is completely innappropriate, and its almost unbelievable that you’d wish that pain on someone else. The point of these temp bans is to give people a chance to cool off, and that’s a very minor thing considering.
I’d wager that most of us on lemmygrad (including me) mask in public, and your temp ban had nothing to do with that. The only bannable offense w/ respect to masking here would be someone posting anti-science articles, or wishing that someone gets covid like you did. People can (and do) report those comments, so we can remove them as necessary.
I’m locking this as its trying to start a struggle session that’s a distraction over your temp ban for saying you hope someone gets covid.
Masks, just like the “litterbug” campaign, are a way to offload responsibility and blame onto the working class, responsibility that should fall to the government and companies.
Case: a person is sick, maybe covid maybe not. Instead of telling the person to stay home (cutting productivity, therefore cutting profits), they just tell the person to wear a mask.
Case: a person works from home, and is sick. Instead of the government providing groceries and ensuring the person doesn’t have to go out during the 4-5 days they are contagious, they tell them to mask up and go grocery shopping.
People don’t even know how to wear a mask. I have seen so many people wear a mask under their nose, or have a mask on that is used and wet from sweat (ineffective). I also see many people have gaps on the sides, or under their chin, might as well not wear a mask at that point. Don’t even get me started on those visors…
The media lied to people. First they said masks don’t work, told people not to buy, but then couple of months later there was a mask mandate.
Their mask rules were ridiculous. When the restaurants opened (for example), the rules were that you had to wear a mask while not seated, walking between tables, but then you could take it off once you’re at the table. LMAO
Those thin masks don’t offer much protection. The ones that do are the N95 ones, yet people were allowed to wear homemade knitted masks, cloth masks, novelty masks, etc. There was no enforcing of a standard. Masks other than N95 simply don’t work.
“Well, what’s the alternative??!!”
- when sick, people should stay home (they should have paid sick leave)
- covid tests should have been free and people should have been testing themselves every few days, I’d much rather that everyone around me had been tested in the last 24-48h, than everyone wearing a mask (improperly) while not knowing whether they have covid or not
- ventilation, UV lights (like others have said)
- hand sanitisers everywhere, plus free hand sanitisers given out (this has been done for the most part)
- quick, population-wide vaccination, no dilly-dallying, no vaccinating this group, then this group, then this group
There’s so much to unpack here. Most COVID infections are passed from an asymptomatic or pre-symptomatic carrier. Surgical masks absolutely protect the wearer and more so the people around the wearer. But you know what? You can wear an KN95 and above. Hand sanitiser is a pretty low effect remedy when touching is a lower risk danger for a respiratory virus.
restaurants
Careful people can avoid indoor dining. We can’t avoid you in mass transit and in the shop
The media lied to people. First they said masks don’t work, told people not to buy, but then couple of months later there was a mask mandate.
In the first few months of the pandemic, there was a short supply of masks for hospitals. I don’t want to be mean, but this sounds like stuff old white dudes post on Facebook.
I swear I say this out of concern for you, but I would delete your comment as it doesn’t put you in the best light.
In the first few months of the pandemic, there was a short supply of masks for hospitals.
But why lie? Why not say “masks work, but there is a shortage in healthcare and refrain from buying too much”? This is why people’s trust in institutions is eroding. Our institutions are neoliberal constructed and controlled anyway. Then they lied about the efficacy of vaccines. Again, why not be honest about it? Liberals have been digging their own grave for a while.
Surgical masks absolutely protect the wearer and more so the people around the wearer.
Where did I say they don’t?
We can’t avoid you in mass transit and in the shop
lol
I would delete your comment as it doesn’t put you in the best light.
You should read my comment more carefully, before having a knee-jerk reaction to a few key words.
But why lie?
Honestly, post a source that the media lied about masks. I can’t believe you’re allowed to post this.
Surgical masks absolutely protect the wearer and more so the people around the wearer.
Where did I say they don’t?
“Those thin masks don’t offer much protection.” This is just misinformation.
We can’t avoid you in mass transit and in the shop
lol
Sociopath level response.
Also I told you about asymptomatic transmission yet your comment remains unedited.
“Those thin masks don’t offer much protection.”
Not compared to N95 and surgical masks, no. I’ve seen people wear one-layer cloth masks. Can anyone guarantee that every mask sold in a shop or at home is made according to WHO’s recommendation of three layers of certain fabrics/material?
post a source that the media lied about masks.
Only place I could find from a quick search: https://www.reuters.com/article/world/fact-checkoutdated-video-of-fauci-saying-theres-no-reason-to-be-walking-arou-idUSKBN26T2T9/
A video circulating on social media shows Dr Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID) at the National Institutes of Health (NIH), saying “there’s no reason to be walking around with a mask.” Fauci’s remarks were made on March 8, 2020 [start of the Pandemic]
In the clip, Dr Fauci says “There’s no reason to be walking around with a mask. When you’re in the middle of an outbreak, wearing a mask might make people feel a little bit better and it might even block a droplet, but it’s not providing the perfect protection that people think that it is. And, often, there are unintended consequences — people keep fiddling with the mask and they keep touching their face.”
I remember seeing that on TV in March. I remember cause I wasn’t traveling and I was watching TV in the hotel. For a second I thought I may have imagined it (which I would have admitted had I not found anything).
Also I told you about asymptomatic transmission yet your comment remains unedited.
What do you want me to do about it? Isn’t asymptomatic transmission more likely at home or at work where you spend a lot of time indoors with the same people? Do people wear masks at home?
Not compared to N95 and surgical masks, no. I’ve seen people wear one-layer cloth masks. Can anyone guarantee that every mask sold in a shop or at home is made according to WHO’s recommendation of three layers of certain fabrics/material?
And this is an argument to not mask to protect vulnerable comrades why?
Only place I could find from a quick search: https://www.reuters.com/article/world/fact-checkoutdated-video-of-fauci-saying-theres-no-reason-to-be-walking-arou-idUSKBN26T2T9/
At least you found a source. I hope that you see that something that happened at month 1 of the pandemic, shared solely on Facebook of all places, shouldn’t be affecting your decisions in any way.
What do you want me to do about it?
Remove insinuations that sick leave and hand sanitising are substitutes for masking. By themselves, they’re fine. But to uses them as an argument that we shouldn’t mask is hella misguided.
And this is an argument to not mask to protect vulnerable comrades why?
That’s not the argument I made.
to uses them as an argument that we shouldn’t mask is hella misguided
My argument was that blaming individuals (especially the working class, rich people never got punished for breaking covid regulations) for the spread of covid when governments should have done much more in the very beginning, namely shutting down most international flights, gave people months off work, shut down everything but the essential places, etc. But throughout the whole pandemic every Western government kept thinking about is keeping the economy afloat, coming up with ad-hoc measures and silly half-measures (like wearing masks in restaurants while walking). By the time covid is all around you that you need a mask 24/7 it’s already too late and the blame shouldn’t be put on working class people who (rightfully) have grown distrustful of their governments and their institutions.
Masks, just like the “litterbug” campaign, are a way to offload responsibility and blame onto the working class, responsibility that should fall to the government and companies.
“Well, what’s the alternative??!!”
-List ten things that aren’t masking
You honestly trying to tell me that you’re not making an argument that we don’t have to mask??? Do you mask, for real? You "lol"ed my comment that we have to face unmasked people in mass transit and shops.
Your solutions offer little help to immunocompromised people who are often afraid to leave their house because covid could significantly worsen their disability or kill them. They also do not help us today to prevent more people from getting a disabling disease called long covid.
immunocompromised people who are often afraid to leave their house because covid could significantly worsen their disability or kill them
Sure, and they should wear a mask. The point I was trying to make is that most people don’t wear a mask properly, or wash/sanitise their hands properly, so people wearing a mask just to wear a mask doesn’t help much.
Here’s another solution: an honest, public education campaign with free masks that makes people want to wear them and know how to wear them properly.
It was botched during covid cause every country had its own guidelines and program, so people were reading about these ones and those ones. And of course it was turned into a political issue. This was perfect for a global organisation like WHO to handle on a global scale with shared resources from every country, but the US and other Western countries were spreading propaganda about WHO being in the pockets of China and they’re not to be trusted. This despite China and WHO warning about covid months before it became a pandemic. Western governments have mishandled the pandemic, lied to their own people, told them this, that, do this, don’t do that, confused the people until they just didn’t care any more, politicians enriched themselves, a lot of money was pilfered from the economic help fund, and these same governments say “wear a mask because we say so”. Now why should anyone listen to them, why would anyone want to? I can understand that reasoning.
I still wore a mask to protect vulnerable people (haven’t worn one in a long time cause literally no one around me does), when I feel covid symptoms I test myself, if I think I have covid I tell people with whom I shared a space recently, etc. But I do this cause I want to do these things, not because I am told to, and I want to do it cause I know the virus can hurt vulnerable people. A lot of people don’t even “believe” in covid. That’s the level of public education in neoliberal states.
Forever thankful my workplace encourages masking
Your workplace should encourage testing by giving free covid tests and encourage people to stay home when sick.
Let me guess, you have to buy your own masks?
Nah it’s a hospital so we already do all that thankfully (and we got over the mask shortage so now there’s extra that can be “taken home” as needed) and our public health department is still sending out masking advisories for healthcare staff. Cons though is having to work with patients that actively have covid.
Nah it’s a hospital … our public health department is still sending out masking advisories for healthcare staff
Oh ok, then wearing a mask makes sense, 1) they’re surgical masks (not cloth), and 2) there’s a bunch of people wearing them properly and changing them often, in addition to proper hand hygiene and overall hygiene, so it further reduces the chance of spread. Nurses and doctors in hospitals wore masks and gloves long before covid, anyway.
Cons though is having to work with patients that actively have covid.
That’s why hospitals have the N95 or surgical masks. The cloth masks don’t offer good protection or have a good seal around the face. The masks I wore were surgical masks ordered from China, but what I’d see most is people wearing a novelty cloth mask, or hand-made one, or a few days old surgical mask, at that point why even bother?
That’s why hospitals have the N95 or surgical masks.
Yeah the N95 is the gold standard and what is used for all of our airborne iso rooms (this includes covid patients) that go into a negative airflow room (surgical masks are okay but I’d never want to be within six feet of someone with active covid without a N95). Still though 12 hour shifts working in close proximity with someone has led to quite a few of our staff getting covid recently which sucks. There’s still very much an active covid problem that will likely lead to another surge as people conduct maskless travel again for the holidays (as well as the piss poor vaccine rates).
$10 says you don’t have anything approaching this energy for people in real life, who actually pose a danger to you.
You will never meet anyone here in real life.
I hope this is cathartic, though.
I get an extra $5 if you use “showing your ass” or “I hope you catch COVID and die” in the reply btw
Do you wear a respirator in public?
Actually I do, motherfucker, because I wear a god damn p100 everywhere I go. A fucking gas mask with removable cartridges and everything. Do that and get back to me. I get stared at, laughed at, pointed at, and I stare right back. I go about my business. I organize with my local community to give out free respirators, information, and education to anyone who needs it. Now tell me what the fuck it is you do again?
I’m not arguing against masks. You’re using me to let off steam from frustration in your actual life.
Here’s the internet, I can be a bit aggressive to strangers, send you all PBB and hope you fall on your butt. What depresses me is how so few of my comrades IRL mask. Being the most white cis male person ever, I don’t feel super great being aggressive about masks with a lot of my comrades. Although one can definitely detect an inverse relationship with masking and privilege.
Uphold Amerikan Pharaoh thought.
The Western left, such as it is, has really shown their liberalism when it comes to COVID. What should have been a time for us to shine was dominated by a small liberal anti-mask sentiment, then a larger liberal anti-anti-mask reaction, and finally liberal normalization and a much higher anti-mask sentiment. We should be 100% top of caring for community, organizing in community, calling out liberal hypernormalization and building from it.
Instead, we have mostly seen opportunism. COVID-cautious folks (which is to say, correct folks) a minority in orgs, sometimes listened to at first. Orgs trying to say that wearing masks alienates you from the proletariat (lmao). And then people who are understandably tired of being the odd one out using this as justification to be massively inconsiderate, even dangerous.
There is still plenty to organize around, though the lightning strike moment has passed for now. Paxlovid is $1400 for the uninsured in the US. There’s currently a wave. There’s a new, seemingly better vaccine and we could organize around access to it. There are locales trying to ban masks in order to crack down on Palestinian solidarity protests. Public health aside, normalizing masks is good for our ability to safely carry out actions. It’s not out of the cards for lightning to strike again and give us dual pandemics, as COVID damages immune systems and public health had adapted to a “fuck it” status quo, flirting with bird flu for no reason other than a poultry lobby. Will your org be ready to agitate? Or did it alienate the people with the most knowledge and investment in this topic?
Promote correct positions (COVID-safe) and reject dominant liberalism (nornalization), especially in our own spaces!
you people
y’all
Who is your criticism pointed towards? The whole website? The ones you saw promoting not using masks? Try not to generalize a whole website because of a single post you saw 😉
Do you wear a respirator in public?
I don’t think the current anti-mask “back to normal” sentiment is in any way “western”. It’s very much global outside Japan (and maybe a few other countries). Not many ppl worry about covid anymore and unless there is state willingness and proper enforcement of masks that isn’t going to change.
I’ll say the same thing I said there: I don’t care how much of a struggle it is to mask in public anymore, because I do not get a choice. My immune system has been fucked up for the last 20 years due to biological lottery. I mask, or I die. You’re not saving the world by masking alone, but you are saving every sick person who has to go to the grocery store and brave the odds again for the 1500th day in a row (if they’re one of the lucky ones) from getting it from you, another potential risk vector. If your actions could swing the pendulum even slightly, if they could marginally tip the odds toward saving even one life in a tidal wave, why wouldn’t you do it? When you tell me your masking does nothing in the face of an apathetic society, when you tell me masking is “virtue signaling”, you tell me you are not serious. You tell me to my face that you are throwing your lot in with my enemy; you are ok with leaving me behind, for them. So I will treat you with the seriousness — and vitriol — you actually deserve, a grace not given to me or people like me as you kill us.
If you won’t mask: tell me why not. I could meet you in the grocery store. I could meet you on the train. It could be anyone in that store or on that train that gives me the covid infection that kills me, but it is just as likely to be you. Tell me why you wouldn’t wear a mask to prevent that possibility. Tell me in the same breath that you’d tell me you’re a comrade at the PSL chapter meeting. Tell me.
go off, i still don’t know why people are so mad about just wearing a mask.
Im pretty tired of being guilted about masking at required events that should have never been planned.
go off, i still don’t know why people are so mad about just wearing a mask.
Fairweather “leftists” that are too fucking selfish to handle inconveniences even for the sake of other people.
If you’re really out here like “wuhhhh no one else is dealing with it so why should I”, if you’re really out here like “it’s a style choice at this point”, if you’re really out here like “but i need to see faces for 2% of my interactions in a day how dare you interfere with my liberty”, then how the FUCK am I supposed to trust that when the pigs are goosestepping down the street with M4s at port ready over their chests, that when there’s Humvees convoying down the streets of my hood, that when the Second Night of Long Knives happens, that ANY of you’d have the discipline to be of ANY FUCKING USE?
I felt, and still feel, very much the same way. The covid pandemic, which never ended no matter what propaganda says and in many ways is only getting worse and harder to even try to mitigate, demonstrated just how selfish far too many people really are, people that couldn’t handle fucking inconveniences in their daily routines that nonetheless present themselves as the future’s comrades in a conflict that would be far more fucking inconvenient than masking and social distancing while gobbling treats at a bar/whatever.
If you’d like to talk about your temp ban we can talk about it. The way they’re structured means they’re instantaneous and cut all contact for the duration, but we’ve explained them before to users after they asked for a follow-up.
Nobody likes getting banned, neither do I, but if we wanted to silence someone we’d give them a permaban and refuse all their new account requests. You received a 48 hours ban for wishing covid on someone else from Lemmygrad, despite you yourself having been through covid and arguing for methods to minimize it so that others wouldn’t catch it. Do you feel that comment was productive?
I hope you have to live with the kind of lung scarring that my partner has to
I curse you with that.Oh shit. Well that’s not nice or comradely.
Again: what comrade? Not mine.
Comrade is as a comrade does.
Then that motherfucker’s going to spread a plague, ain’t they? Not mine. You motherfuckers are going to learn that we don’t do free camaraderie and entitlements to respect. Shown nothing, proven nothing, and still out here with your hands out.
Do you feel that comment was productive?
I stand ten toes down on what I said. If people really want to take up for anti-maskers, if people really wanna smug and optics politic how I feel about petri dish-assed settlers, the I give less than zero fucks what happens to them after that point because how dare they call themselves my comrade?
Do you wear a respirator in public?
To date, the single worst post I’ve ever seen on Hexbear, the one that did the most overall damage, that drove away numerous people that I still haven’t seen since because of the toxic assholish bullying that the poster and likely alts performed afterward, was a post titled “you need to go out” by “RonJeremyCorbyn” and seconded by numerous dubious probably-alt accounts. It had a slimy opener about “loving you all” that then went and called people “shut-ins” if they weren’t going out on New Years to “kiss strangers” and otherwise be boomer-tier plague rats all for the sake of “normalcy” that would supposedly “stop embarrasing leftism.”
That shit went on for days afterward, probably from that piece of shit’s alt accounts. I still miss some of the people that were bullied off the site, and I still utterly loathe that piece of shit for that post.
Hexbear isn’t exempt from treat hogs that have superficial leftist beliefs but also a whole lot of “DON’T TELL ME WHAT TO DOOOOOOOOOOOOO” selfish asshole attitude beneath that that goes off from even the suggestion of personal inconvenience for the sake of others. Such attitude has material consequences and can and will do actual harm to others in the offline world.
Jesus I think I memory holed that one, was like a fucking post by a disciple of Nurgle trying to edge people out to perpetuate a plague during one of the worst periods at that time with an ongoing covid surge. It’s freaking weird how so many countries have a tradition of masking even before covid during seasons of high flu and yet western people aren’t just baffled but outright RABID whenever masking is discussed, as though covid doesn’t fucking exist and the latest surge never fucking happened (then again mainstream news said very little about it so for most Americans it never happened or was fake news).
EDIT: I considered linking to it, but considering that some people that were bullying “shut-ins” back then are still posting now, maybe I should just send a private message and just hope that those boomer-brained plague rats found a conscience and some empathy since then.
hope that those boomer-brained plague rats found a conscience and some empathy since then
one can hope
I stand ten motherfucking toes down on what I said to Cantaloupe Ass and Ghost of Faso; any plague rat motherfucker who wants to take issue with how I feel about people who won’t mask can catch the same cases my partners and my family caught. It’s a whole lot of you motherfuckers that are so unserious, so emphatically not my comrades that it sickens me seeing you call yourselves so.
To address this, at no point have I ever said that people should not mask, I advocated for masking alongside infection rates rising and not masking when the current infection levels are low enough (like less than 10 cases country wide) and at that point masking in clinical settings or around more vulernable people.
I took issue with you wishing death/disablity on another poster, and I stand by that.
What a shit-show that thread was. For some strange reason, the warped mind runs sickeningly deep in every corner of the culture of the west. The inherent need for blood in exchange for justice that was designed through every facet of our media, our art, our relationships with each other in an fierce individualism that demands “justification” for why a person themselves should change or adjust to the conditions around them.
A design to slaughter Native-Americans, to separate the sick, the poor, the different. To make a culture where even if there is no divide, to create one. It’s something that we all must fight every day. I wanted to ask, are you leaving? I appreciated your posts.
I do want to say, wishing COVID on someone isn’t cool. I’ve lost one of my best friends to that. You have lost more. I don’t wish COVID or any disease on my worst enemies. I view it in the same breath as “biological/chemical warfare” sort of thing. There is just indifference to death. There is a reflection there that I see that I wish to avoid.
I don’t wish COVID or any disease on my worst enemies.
You wouldn’t wish covid even on our billionaire overlords who intentionally sabotaged any chance we had of containing it and thus consigned millions of people to death by covid for the sake of profits? I would and I do. I wish that upon them and much much worse.
Who do they spread it too? Sure, their servants or their “dogs” if you want to say that. Who do they then spread it too? It is not like a nuclear weapon; or any weapon of mass devastation even chemical. It is actual, ultimate desolation that will kill far, far more than you want to.
It is not something to toy lightly with.
If the people with the power and authority to mandate vaccines, distancing, “lockdowns,” and public mask wearing but who instead ensured those measures could never be seriously implemented had themselves all gotten fatal cases of covid and died slow, horrble deaths from it, then the world would be a much better place now. Who knows how many decent real people who did die of covid would still be alive, if common sense and normal community response had not been thwarted by those in power? Even belatedly, if the people most responsible for the scale of death from covid somehow got it now and died as a result, it would be a good thing worth celebrating.
It’s very hard to take seriously any so-called ML who thinks that billionaires dying of the same disease they condemned millions of others die of is such a bad thing that no one should even be able to wish it would happen.
Who do they spread it too?
This isn’t about spreading it. You said you wouldn’t “wish it on” your worst enemies, which is pretty unambiguous in its meaning that you think that even your enemies don’t deserve to suffer as one does with covid. If you read my other comment in this thread, you’d know that I always mask and always will because I care about the well-being of people in my community, immunocompromised comrades, and all people of the working class in general. Preventing the spread of covid is deeply important to me, more so than to those who make excuses for their failure to mask. Don’t be disingenuous and try to imply I am not concerned about the spread of covid simply because I recognize that it would be nothing short of cosmic (if coincidental) justice if the people most responsible for its continued spread and resulting mass death covid caused were themselves to suffer and die from it.
It is not like a nuclear weapon; or any weapon of mass devastation even chemical. It is actual, ultimate desolation that will kill far, far more than you want to.
… You do realize almost everyone has been infected with covid now, right? You’re saying it’s cool to wish that capitalists get nuked (or suffer other weapons of mass devastation), but wishing covid upon them is a step too far because it is ultimate desolation? What are you even talking about? This is nonsensical.
This feels eerily close to the line of thinking that libs use when they say, “Oh? You want to get rid of the death penalty and focus on rehabilitation? Even for murderers, rapists, and war criminals? You must be evil then too.”
Taking an extremely uncharitable view of 666’s words and then somehow trying to say that he somehow believes that billionaires shouldn’t feel the consequences of their actions is bizarre.
No, you have it completely backwards. I’m the one saying “in a communist country, the death penalty is not always a bad thing, but may be commensurate justice to be used against those responsible for the exploitation of an entire society and the torture and murder of thousands of working class people,” when a lib, in their usual cringe idealism, draws a blanket assessment like “noooo, killing is always bad and there are no exceptions!” Saying “it’s not cool to wish covid on anyone no matter how evil they are” is sheer idealism. “Wishing” alone will never make any material difference in the first place, but there’s nothing wrong with desiring the death of people who absolutely deserve death, which is fine, normal, in some cases even positive.
Your analogy is what’s absolutely bizarre and asinine because you either totally misunderstand what’s happening here or, like I said, you got it very obviously ass backwards. Funny enough, your reading of what I said is far more uncharitable than anything in my response to -6-6-6-.
The death penalty has no place in a socialist state. Once the revolution passes the initial stage, the death penalty becomes purely a tool of retribution and vengeance, the same as it is in a liberal state.
What’s ass backwards if your takes.
I’m somewhat neutral/leaning towards being supportive of the death penalty, and I understand your sentiment. And I’m not trying to be a contrarian or sound like a smug “know-it-all” or edgelord.
But I genuinely want to ask, can you really say that the death penalty isn’t a necessity on some level?
I do think and hope that the death penalty will be used less at least in a socialist society, but my opinion is that it should always remain an option.
I am aware that it is a great tragedy that as many as 4 percent to 15-ish percent of those that are executed by the state are innocent of their charges. And I am aware that a lifetime in prison can arguably be “worse” and a more fitting punishment for the convicted.
I’m of two minds: I think the death penalty should be reserved for the most heinous crimes where there is a mountain’s worth of evidence and nearly no shred of doubt, and if the person is a genuinely dangerous threat that refuses to respond to treatment, therapy, education by work and humility.
I don’t understand how/why the death penalty should ever be completely removed as an option or last-resort.
I am aware that China for example supposedly has long-term plans to stop the use of capital punishment, which I think is fairly commendable.
I’m also aware that when capitalism is overthrown, crime and violent crime will drastically decrease.
I’m talking like, in regards to people like unrepentant rapists/pedophiles, reich-wing agitators like Steven Crowder or Ben Shapiro, people like Peter Scully, Shanda Vander Ark. I don’t see the benefit in letting them live.
But I genuinely want to ask, can you really say that the death penalty isn’t a necessity on some level?
Yes, any government shouldnt have the power to execute workers. People get things wrong and the death penalty is permanent. Sankara believed that on some level, and I think the death penalty is too powerfull of a lever to hand out usually.
I’m talking like, in regards to people like unrepentant rapists/pedophiles, reich-wing agitators like Steven Crowder or Ben Shapiro, people like Peter Scully, Shanda Vander Ark. I don’t see the benefit in letting them live.
I also do see this arguement, I think for me its the pre/post revolution arguement. When we’re in power we shouldnt kill our own.
Exactly. Billionaires get the wall. Where you get to do with your hands.
Yours might be one of the only replies in this thread I plan to reply to, because I plan to massively cut down on how much I interact with this fed. I have no further faith in the moderation here, and lost a good deal of respect for a good number of regulars here in the doing.
I do want to say, wishing COVID on someone isn’t cool.
This is maybe the only place where I could see one having a genuine issue; and y’know what? That’s fine that that’s your take.
I’ve already had to watch it ravage my community. There’s people I knew that don’t come around anymore. Became agoraphobic. That’s not even talking the people that did die in my community, and their families still feel those holes to this day. Most of the people in my orbit, they survived-- but not a one came away without something permanent left behind. Brainfog, asthma-resembling hacking fits, compromised immune systems, the works. I wouldn’t feel so comfortable saying what I did to someone if I didn’t already know, down to the scars at the bottoms of my lungs, what this disease does to the people who are lucky enough to have survived it.
Way I see it, if you’re going to be as indifferent to death as to take up for anti-maskers, I’m going to be indifferent to what happens to you, because there is nothing that can unite us at that point. Gods only know I’m already out of reasons to unite with the average settler anyway.
“How did one straw break the camel’s back? Here’s the secret: the million other straws underneath it.”
“I’ve already had to watch it ravage my community. There’s people I knew that don’t come around anymore. Became agoraphobic. That’s not even talking the people that did die in my community, and their families still feel those holes to this day. Most of the people in my orbit, they survived-- but not a one came away without something permanent left behind. Brainfog, asthma-resembling hacking fits, compromised immune systems, the works. I wouldn’t feel so comfortable saying what I did to someone if I didn’t already know, down to the scars at the bottoms of my lungs, what this disease does to the people who are lucky enough to have survived it”
As did I.
“Way I see it, if you’re going to be as indifferent to death as to take up for anti-maskers”
The way I see it is that you’re staring at something as brutally indifferent and deadly as disease and are advocating it upon anti-maskers who will then infect others who may, even by chance, infect people who truly do mask or take preventative measures. Nowhere am I standing up for them.
“I’m going to be indifferent to what happens to you”
So quickly. A shame. I can’t say the same. Peace to you.
The way I see it is that you’re staring at something as brutally indifferent and deadly as disease and are advocating it upon anti-maskers who will then infect others who may, even by chance, infect people who truly do mask or take preventative measures. Nowhere am I standing up for them.
I don’t have much to say in this struggle session, but I do need to address this. Non/anti maskers are already infecting others, who are infecting others, etc. until people who are actually taking preventative measures may be infected. Plague rats choking to death on their own mucus, waterboarding style, would just be them suffering the consequences of the actions they’re already doing. Your concern wrt the indifference to death is still valid, but I doubt nurglers suffering from more severe COVID symptoms would affect the spread appreciably; it’d arguably even reduce it since they won’t be able to go out and spread it co others.
That’s part of the point. We know COVID isn’t always “severe”. That’s what is insidious about it and any other disease that could follow.
Nowhere am I standing up for them.
Nor do I think you do; made slight edits to emphasize that the ‘you’ in my bit there is a hypothetical quantity, not meant to call you to the front directly on that.
I am not going to lie, my biggest takeaway from these threads is that most Americans, even leftist ones, are fuckin crazy.
