- cross-posted to:
- thedeprogram@lemmit.online
- cross-posted to:
- thedeprogram@lemmit.online
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Good video, mostly. I didn’t like him simply skipping over the fact that immigration indeed does cause issues, just that the advantages usually massively outweigh those—that felt off-balance.
And I noticed again how in-denial I used to be about Macron. Despite the news about headscarves being branded “un-French”, about yellow vests, about expanded police rights, about him and Rishi getting along great because they’re both “banker bros”, …
Yes, presenting immigration as totally great without any issues is very dishonest. Many Europeans know first hand that the streets are less safe than they used to be and which groups are causing it.
Then there’s a blatant misquote in there as well. Macron’s minister of the interior didn’t call LePen weak on migration but Islamism, as is visible on the quote he shows.
These two issues alone damage his credibility enormously.
Presenting the left popular front as some kind of success, is also reaching. It’s a desperate survival strategy.
He then goes on to bash liberal democrats for the rise of fascism, stopping short of calling them fascists as well.
So overall this is just a doubling down on a failed strategy of the left. Being uncritically ideologically pro immigration, regardless of facts, social, demographic, and political realities, while calling everyone fascist, hasn’t stopped us from ending up in the current situation.
While there are some good points in the video about the nature of fascism, it remains shallow. The Nazis and fascist Italy had a world war to deal with. Other fascist regimes to compare to would be Pinochet in Chile, Peronism, of Franco’s Spain.
Many Europeans know first hand that the streets are less safe than they used to be and which groups are causing it.
No. Many people* believe* that streets are less safe than they used to be, although actual facts and statistics show the opposite and it’s much safer now.
They also believe which groups are causing it, because both lies are told by the same right-wing propagandists (and amplified by media giving a shit about facts, context or anything else but attention and clicks). The actual groups causing more crime are also in the actual real statistics: far-right crime and xenophobic assaults are on the rise and massively impact total numbers.
Well, I know first hand and from friends and acquaintances that is has become less safe. The statistics don’t show what’s really going on.
I and others I know don’t go to places anymore where we experienced violence, robbery, and harassment. That doesn’t mean those places are now safe, that they have been taken over by a different demographic.
A friend of mine can’t use the park she lives next to anymore. After she was harassed several times, it’s not safe anymore. Only one case was reported to the police by her, who didn’t do anything about it.
Should she have kept going to the park until something more serious happened that warrants showing up as violent crime in the statistics?
Antisemitic crime is counted as far right, even if the perpetrators are Islamists from Syria.
The statistics are misleading and don’t tell the whole story.
Islamists are far right… Yes they might not mutually like white far right people but that’s the thing about an exclusionary fascist ideology, which both groups possess
Many Europeans know first hand that the streets are less safe than they used to be and which groups are causing it.
For one thing, that’s not what I was saying.
And then there’s a lot of conflating “feeling safe” with “being safe” going on here, which has a lot to do with our innate xenophobia. People don’t become criminals because of the color of their skin, their language, or their religion. Instead they become criminals because of social standing, lack of money, lack of education, gender, age, drug use. But of course, branding everyone who looks or speaks differently from you as bad/evil happens to be easy.
Yet in reality, it doesn’t make much of a difference whether people are murdered by a nazi, someone apolitical born in $yourCountry, or a recent immigrant. But these people will likely share factors such as being less educated, belonging to a social group that is not accepted, being poor, male and under 30.
Then there’s a blatant misquote in there as well. Macron’s minister of the interior didn’t call LePen weak on migration but Islamism, as is visible on the quote he shows.
I did notice that one as well – although I didn’t look up whether there’s additional context. This was not a direct quote though, it was from a newspaper that paraphrased.
Nonetheless, even so, it’s telling considering the kind of anti-islam, police-heavy state France has morphed into in recent years.
Presenting the left popular front as some kind of success, is also reaching. It’s a desperate survival strategy.
That’s pretty much what he said.
He then goes on to bash liberal democrats for the rise of fascism, stopping short of calling them fascists as well.
There’s data to back up what he says – austerity & accompanying economic vulnerability, destruction of community, strengthening social hierarchies all lead to authoritarian tendencies.
So overall this is just a doubling down on a failed strategy of the left.
Ftr: Don’t agree. He’s right in that what’s failing us is the stream of center-right policy since the 80s.
Being uncritically ideologically pro immigration, regardless of facts, social, demographic, and political realities,
Tbh, I see a lot more people who uncritically ideologically against all immigration, regardless of facts.
while calling everyone fascist, hasn’t stopped us from ending up in the current situation.
Good one! In your own words, the guy from the video is
stopping short of calling them fascists as well.
And indeed, pretty much everyone else is too.
Well reading crime, there are places I don’t go anymore since the large number of refugees arrived in 2015. It’s simply no longer safe. Not because of some vague feeling, but because I myself, friends and acquaintances have been harassed, insulted, robbed, sexually assaulted, and violently injured. I’m visibly queer and can’t use public transport at night anymore because of repeated harassments. I had to run more than once. On top of that Islamist knife and vehicle wielding terrorists didn’t used to murder in my city 10 years ago.
Yes, poor young single males are more likely to be violent criminals. Maybe that’s a reason to not take them in in huge numbers?
That’s just scratching the surface. Young generations have a migrant percentage of 30-40%. That’s a serious danger to social cohesion and stability.
You’re conflating Islam and Islamism. Islamism is a religious version of fascism. It ruined many Muslim countries and is now threatening Europe. Most Muslims are normal and well behaved folks. The ideology is coming with migrants but also in other ways. It’s a serious issue.
Of course the right populists use issues of demographics, migration, identity, crime, anlienation, etc. to the detriment of the working class. That doesn’t mean there aren’t any real issues.
Yeah, the analysis of fascists offering control and security during (economically) uncertain times is correct. Addressing the issues takes away the fertile ground for fascism to grow.
Not because of some vague feeling, but because I myself, friends and acquaintances have been harassed, insulted, robbed, sexually assaulted, and violently injured. I’m visibly queer and can’t use public transport at night anymore because of repeated harassments. I had to run more than once.
I am sorry that this happened to you.
However:
- I do know that locally, in this Eastern German town, right-wing asshats use general feelings pretty much exclusively and don’t even care that crime rates have gone down quite significantly or that we’re doing better than other cities.
- I do have right-wing family. I can tell you that the only reason you don’t run from them in public-transit contexts is that they use cars not transit.
On top of that Islamist knife and vehicle wielding terrorists didn’t used to murder in my city 10 years ago.
Are these a common sight now? And if both of these happened in your city, then I suspect the only German city you may be living in is Berlin.
Yes, poor young single males are more likely to be violent criminals. Maybe that’s a reason to not take them in in huge numbers?
… Or maybe, they’re coming here in any case and European societies have too few young working-age people, so on average they’re come in extremely handy?
The real learning from this should be not to let social outcomes go to shit for less well-off people.
You’re conflating Islam and Islamism.
I am not. I understand it might read like that though.
However, I meant Islam. E.g. anti-headscarf laws to me, are generally anti-Islam, not anti-Islamism.
Most Muslims are normal and well behaved folks.
So maybe these 40% migrants in some age groups are not all a danger to social cohesion then?
Of course the right populists use issues of demographics, migration, identity, crime, anlienation, etc. to the detriment of the working class. That doesn’t mean there aren’t any real issues.
I guess we’re finding common ground there. Except I see that issues arise in terms of there being a large potential of fucking up integration. Like, e.g. Germany which has just cut a lot of money for language courses which were already overflowing to the degree that people couldn’t register for way too long.
And yes, different cultures approach problems differently and tend to have different values, and that will obviously lead to certain issues. As long as violence and wild insults are credibly off-limits, there’s no real harm in that.
A language course isn’t enough for integration. The culture needs to be compatible.
Christianity and Islam are largely the same culturally, at most you could say that some Muslims lag a few decades behind in their understanding or women and other minority rights (although even that is questionable looking at some evangelical Christians).
Not really. There are distinct cultural differences between the Middle East and Europe. Whole books have been written on those. The Islamic world isn’t just a few decades behind. Islamism is a widespread ultra conservative political movement that’s growing. Evangelicals are tame in comparison as they don’t have world domination by force on their agenda.
