- cross-posted to:
- wallstreetbets@lemmit.online
- technology@lemmit.online
- cross-posted to:
- wallstreetbets@lemmit.online
- technology@lemmit.online
Apple hit with class action lawsuit over iCloud’s 5GB limit::A newly-proposed class action lawsuit alleges that Apple has “marked up its iCloud prices to the point where the service…
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The lawsuit isn’t really about the 5 GB free tier, but about being able to use system services like device backups with other cloud providers.
Poorly written headline.
The actual article headline
Apple hit with class action lawsuit over iCloud’s 5GB limit and iPhone backup restrictions
Ah ok. I was so confused. I still don’t know if it’s legal.
I doubt they’re going to win. Apple does allow file and photo backups to other services. This about backing up OS files like preferences whatnot. Which 5gb is probably way more than enough for.
O.o Can you explain how to do nightly backups of your photos and files to external services? Or are you talking about “other apps are allowed to access these files, and you can set up shortcuts to run apps, and those apps can back up the files” which is extremely different than “Apple lets you back the files up.”
I’ll speak for Dropbox. Dropbox has a setting for it in the photos app. (I have it off right now)
And for file, as long as you save your files to your drop box directory, they will be mirrored in the cloud.
What you’re talking about is more of a happenstance of other things converging on the ability to do this. Apple doesn’t support it, nor do they care if they break it in the future. Think of it like a workaround that just hasn’t been broken by an update (yet).
Apple doesn’t support it, nor do they care if they break it in the future. Think of it like a workaround that just hasn’t been broken by an update (yet).
This is factually incorrect. They have actively supported this stuff, and most notably, recently released a framework so non-Apple remote storage can reliably integrate into iOS / MacOS without needing to maintain a kernel extension.
Go look at the developer documentation and the WWDC sessions around file management if you don’t believe me.
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Sometimes it’s hard to feel sorry for Apple users given the amount of repeated nickeling and diming they go through,yet make excuses for (as seen in the comments). Definitely shades of battered woman syndrome
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This sounds like something that hasn’t been true for 5-10 years tbh. At least not within the Pixel family. I upgrade phones without a single hiccup. My older phones are still around and used daily by my kids with no problema. I’ve had to wipe a phone and restore from the cloud backup and it was a matter of minutes to be usable, and was effectively like nothing had happened as soon as my apps and their data finished downloading.
I setup both for work. On this front there is hardly any difference. For the average user, it now comes down to OS and device preference. I manage my family’s apple and google accounts and neither was much harder than the other. Now, for work, preparing an iPhone is much, much more complicated than an Android device. This, once again, only matters if you don’t have automated enrollment from your business carrier into your MDM.
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I don’t deny it might feel foreign to someone using iOS daily for decades. But that’s not the statement. The statement was that iOS does things like upgrades, backup restoration, and value retention better, which just isn’t true anymore.
I use both, actually, because Android tablets in my experience have been pretty disappointing, so I’m pretty familiar with both ecosystems.
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On the other hand, the phone just works,
Same with android
upgrades between devices are seamless,
Same with android
and the phone retains value after 4 years.
Aight you got me there, except for that apple has been proven in court to slow down their older models of phones
Plus, the backup restoration is insane. If you stole my phone, I’d be back to where I was within an hour or two
Same with android
— all of which is driving to Apple and waiting on a sales clerk to pull an iPhone from the back, then going to a store owned by my cell carrier to register the device on their network.
I just go to walmart
No device re-customization at all in the equation.
Same with android
There is nothing like it on Android.
False
5GB is a lame amount for a base tier of storage in 2024 but it’s hardly abuse.
I agree, if people are willing to buy into apple they get what apple serves them.
It’s pretty cool how you can just download any app and install it, also how you can customize the phone to look however you want, run whatever software you want, and all for under $200
Oh wait
Stop it! You make android look good, oh no!
/s
I have had zero issues restoring or moving between android phones. What in the world are you talking about?
Meanwhile my mom forgot her apple password and their customer support was so unhelpful she had to get a new account after talking to them for months. They refused to let her reset her password.
Apple makes my life as the family sysadmin significantly easier. If I only had to worry about myself I’d do Android with a privacy focused ROM, but I doubt I could handle my entire family doing that. No way am I putting them on stock Android.
It would be nice if there was some competition but I’m not holding my breath.
Why would you only use a privacy focused ROM and not stock Android, when you use a stock iPhone? Do you think that Apple doesn’t collect just as much data on you as Android does? It’s literally in the Apple terms of service. They’ve just conned you into believing their marketing BS.
Did you not read my post? I use Apple because it makes managing my family fleet easier. If I were by myself I would use a privacy focused ROM.
I’ve got users to manage, and Apple’s locked down approach makes it significantly easier. Everyone gets updates the same day, and phones are supported for years, not months. Backups are stupid easy if someone needs a replacement. iCloud is forgettable, which is ideal for the children and grandparents I manage.
Apple is collecting data on me, but selling data isn’t their primary business. The same cannot be said for Google, which is one of the reasons I’m not putting my family on stock Google. Apple is the lesser evil.
Ok, so you were saying you prefer a privacy focused OS but settle for iOS because it’s simpler. Fair point.
As far as data collection goes, Google isn’t selling it either. Apple and Google are both collecting your data to assign you to certain demographics. They then sell ad space, and the people that purchase those ads can select the demographic they want it to go to. It’s not ideal, but it’s certainly better than them selling your actual personal data to third parties.
There is nothing like it on Android
In the past, I’ve always made a conscious choice not to try to do it that way on Android. Getting a new phone is a good chance to reset, only install apps that I specifically still use, etc.
But in the past, I’ve always replaced a phone because the old one was so old the battery couldn’t get through even one day, so I had plenty of time to manually back up and take care of any specific data I really needed to be sure about. Recently, I had to get a new phone prematurely after I crashed and landed directly on the old one. So I did use the Pixel’s restore functionality as I upgraded from the broken Pixel 6 Pro to the new Pixel 7a. And it was completely seamless. Kept me logged in to apps that I never thought would stay logged in, remembered wifi passwords, everything.
Of course, all of that was only possible because I casted my screen to my TV and plugged in a mouse and keyboard. The screen was too broken to approve the transfer otherwise.
Actually, there’s something exactly like that on Android too. Just like on iOS, you also don’t have the choice to back that up to where you want tho. You have to use Google Drive if you’re not using a custom ROM like LineageOS.
Does android offer free storage for cloud backups?
Drive is 15 GB
Can’t iPhone users use Drive?
Yes. Although it is limited in what you can back up afaik
Wait, really? I haven’t checked that in a couple years but my Home Assistant backups are broken because out of Google drive space and it shouldn’t use anywhere near that amount - Damn, now I’m going to have to actually check it out
Edit: it was full of random crap. Good news it was trivial to clear space but now i have to figure out why some of that was there and whether is have copies
Ahh, a fellow HA user spotted in the wild!
So marginally better, thought so
3x as much is “marginally better.” What world do you Apple zealots live in?
15gb ain’t much either, and drive works on iOS to boot. So I guess earth?
Edit: Google Drive free tier: 15gb Google Drive 100gb: $2/month iCloud free tier: 5gb iCloud 50gb: $1/month
Wow, what a radical difference in offerings. I am definitely just like a battered woman
The problem stated in the lawsuit is that you can’t use alternative backup providers on iOS, while you (presumably?) can on Android. Apple has no real competition in the device backup space, as they prevent third-parties from providing an equivalent service. (Notice the word equivalent - iTunes backups don’t count.) It’s a perfectly reasonable complaint IMO.
I say this as someone who prefers iCloud for its encryption features.
That’s reasonable. I think iOS/iPadOS overall are in dire need of being more open. iPad especially since they’re at the point where they could largely replace laptops but are hamstrung by being so locked down. I still think it’s obnoxious to compare people with different opinions to domestic abuse victims
It’s three times more lmao
As far as I know, Android also doesn’t give you the option to back up system and app data to something else than Google Drive. LineageOS gives you that option but they implemented that themselves.
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What abuse?
That’s a pretty sick analogy. It’s crazy the levels you guys take these Apple feuds to.
What!? the company that weaponizes vendor-lockin the most is overcharging for their service!?!?!
9,99€ per month for 2 TB seems pretty normal to me. Google Drive is the same price iirc, and other providers have similar pricing.
That’s still expensive tho. After 10 months you could’ve just bought a 2tb nvme instead. Or a refurbished 10tb HDD.
Of course, but that’s an alternative you still have. As long as you have a computer, you can backup your phone to it just fine. The $100 for the drive also doesn’t factor in redundancy, bandwidth cost, power cost and maintenance.
You’re right about the last part, I didn’t think about that. But wasn’t the whole point of this that you can only backup your system and app data to iCloud? Can you back that up using a computer as well?
Yes, you can. If you choose to protect the backup with a password, it’s actually a more complete backup as it also backs up things like sessions, so you don’t have to login again to most apps after restoring.
So it backs up system settings, app data and stuff as well, right? But do you just need a PC for that or does it have to be a Mac?
Yes, it backs up pretty much everything, including app data. Apps themselves will need to redownload from the App Store though, just like with iCloud backups.
Apple officially supports device backups on Macs (integrated into Finder) or Windows via this app: https://apps.microsoft.com/detail/9np83lwlpz9k
And you’re able to do that…
Meh, they let you use whatever service you want, just not for some of the OS and app preference files - which are well under 5gb.
If you want to back up your media and docs to Dropbox, go for it.
I could join the 5GB club as well - after maybe ten years in the Apple ecosystem, my iPhone backup is 4.1GB.
Separately I have 28GB photos that could be synched to any service
I buy 2TB iCloud because I have multiple devices, share the space with a family of four, and use it for cloud storage from my PC
I read this article, because it’s absurd to make a class action lawsuit about the free tier remaining at only 5GB. Apple has the right to give as much or little away for free.
Instead, the lawsuit is about something a lot more lawsuit worthy: The fact that you cannot backup your iPhone with other cloud service providers, providing an unfair advantage to iCloud. This should definitely be illegal.
Additionally, can we have a lawsuit over excessive storage markups (that are over ~2x the gross margin of the device)? This is also basically pure profit.
“There is no technological or security justification for Apple mandating the use of iCloud for Restricted Files,” the lawsuit reads.
Wouldn’t this argument also be true for everything else Apple restricts you from doing? Texting app, browser, Apple music on a home pod, etc? (I don’t have a lot of good examples because I don’t have an i thing but I’m sure there are more)
This is Apple’s face falling brick my brick. The app store was just the start
There’s already a ruling they have to allow other browser engines
How are you guys reading this article? It took me 5-10mins of unchecking each cookie vendor one by one before I gave up.
Modern internet is a shit show
The ddg browser on my phone just kinda does it automatically
Thanks, I just installed it and now I can use the share button to load the article in ddg.
I’ll consider switching to it as my default browser if it doesn’t let me down over the coming weeks.
Honestly thanks for sharing with your comment
You’re welcome. I’ve used it for a long time without issues… take a look at the app tracking protection in the settings too. Works well
Firefox for Android
I’ve always wondered whether I should bother about doing this. I assumed if I read the article in a Private Browser, no cookies are stored, and therefore none of my information is tracked?
I’m not quite sure if they’re allowed to use your IP to index your history or not. If you use private browser and VPN you’ll be fine.
I’ve just never worked out how to easily open private browsers from my mobile sync client
I’ve just never worked out how to easily open private browsers from my mobile sync client
I think the easiest way is to use the share
menu to get the link and then paste it in the private browser.But yeah, no way to stop the keyboard app from seeing the link once it’s in the clipboard… And Google also probably gets it from the android share functionality…
One thing Apple device browsers get so right is ReadingMode. Brave and Orion have the best in my opinion but that list is not exhaustive
What’s good about Apple device browsers reading mode compared to others?
It takes away all the cookie shit and you can adjust the background to be light, dark, or sepia and manipulate the actual appearence of the text in whatever way is most pleasing for you and you can set it to default to that on all non-search engine pages+easily untoggle it if you need the original appearence
It really cleans it up but I love the making everything dark for night time. Nothing i hate more than bright white backgrounds to articles or pages I wanna read at night without screwing my sleep
Sounds similar to what’s available for me on Samsung Browser. I thought these would’ve been default options on all browsers!
What are the privacy deets for Samsung Browser tho. I try to go for the check mark (No data collected) but thats AppStore stuff. Look into it if you can, I suspect they collect your content/searches and tie it to you
If so, i hope ur behaving u messy beast ;)
Privacy badger turned up to max
I hope they loose this lawsuit and set a precedent that Samsung also has to follow. At least Samsung gives you the choice between onedrive and Google, but still no choice for generic WebDav…
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That 2
well you can add ftp/sftp/samba storage as “native”, just not webdav
I hope this forces their hand in having to allow other actual e2e cloud services, its legititmately bullshit we even need to have this convo :(
I’d love to use my 2TB iCloud with my Android devices
This is an extra service they don’t have to offer. If they wanted to they could just drop the free tier altogether. You have space on your phone and you can back it up to your computer as well. I do t see the point of this lawsuit except “wah, they’re not giving me enough stuff for free!”
This is an extra service they don’t have to offer.
No, they could let you use someone else’s service instead, but they’ve chosen to block that.
you can back it up to your computer as well
According to the article you literally can’t
Although based on the comments there, the article may be wrong on that point
You can still do backups to your desktop like you used to do, it’s just not usually necessary.
I need to get my old shit off of my old computers and move it to iCloud. I’m paying for it, might as well fill it up. I’d like to look at photos without browsing old ass green drives.
I won’t do it though.
Amazon Photos works. Dropbox works. NextCloud works. What service are they blocking?
iCloud backup is core to the OS, all user settings and app data is there. You can manually do it on a Mac apparently but no other service.
I paid for a MacOS app to do it. Works great
Syncios or something
Apple nevertheless arbitrarily requires that its mobile device holders use iCloud to back up certain file types—mainly, device settings as well as apps and apps data (“Restricted Files”). With respect to other file types—e.g., photos and videos (“Accessible Files”)—Apple mobile device holders can select from other cloud-based storage providers servicing the market, including Google Drive, Sync.com, pCloud, and others.
According to the suit
The article is wrong.
This is a stupid lawsuit. You can back up your phone locally using iTunes and Finder and the new device app on Windows. You can also back it up using third party software. No one is forcing you to use iCloud.
You get a free computer with purchase of an iPhone? Neat!
What’s a “computer”?
You get a free backup to the cloud with purchase of a computer? Neat!
You get a free external backup drive with the purchase of a computer? Neat!
Your computer allows you to backup native app data to other cloud drives? Neat!
Y’all realize that paying for a backup device has been a thing since the dawn of computing, right?
It doesn’t matter if the hard drive is in my house, or in a server farm. Someone is going to sell me the space.
I was just trying to point out that not everyone has a computer they can “just” backup to.
Seems the issue is what you can back up on the phone and where
Apple nevertheless arbitrarily requires that its mobile device holders use iCloud to back up certain file types—mainly, device settings as well as apps and apps data (“Restricted Files”). With respect to other file types—e.g., photos and videos (“Accessible Files”)—Apple mobile device holders can select from other cloud-based storage providers servicing the market, including Google Drive, Sync.com, pCloud, and others.
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Many services depends on iCloud to work. Message sync and sharing Notes for instance. If your backups are taking up all your storage these things stop working right. It’s dumb.
Messages sync without being on iCloud backup.
I hate this the most about my iPhone. I’m currently on my 3rd Apple device, but you don’t get more storage every time you buy one. So if you have an iPhone and an iPad you’re still stuck with 5gb, and it’s shared with you backups and your cloud-based apps like photo sync, message sync. That 5gb is gone pretty quick.
It’s easy enough to sync photos elsewhere, but not messages. So the $1/mo storage upgrade becomes really attractive.
I hope this opens up their backup service but I doubt it.
You don’t need to backup messages to iCloud for it to sync across devices. I have multiple iPhones and iPads on one account and don’t come across this issue because I backup photos to my laptop.
Your messages share the 5gb space with the backups.
Yes, they do. If you set it up that way to store messages on the cloud.
It’s shared across the account, the devices don’t matter. That’s what makes it seamless.
My issue is that you don’t get more space for each active device you add to the account.
And the point is that the data you share across them is identical. Additional devices does not create additional data, your usage of them does.
So your live data doesn’t get saved in the device backup?
It does–if you are signed in to all locations and have the sync settings turned on across them all, then all data will be uploaded. But if you have more photos across all devices than your plan will allow for upload, then anything extra will no longer upload unless you pay for additional space.
Apple gives you free iCloud storage to back up your phone when you get a new device.
https://support.apple.com/en-us/104980
You can also sync phone to phone when upgrading as part of the setup assistant, without needing iCloud storage.
You don’t get “more” storage though. And if you have even just one iPad your storage is gone really quick between the two devices.
Oh it’s good to know. Thanks
Apple does let you use any cloud backup service you want… just not for the OS and app preference files. Those go to iCloud, but those are also highly unlikely to hit 5gb.
When you cloud restore with your media backed up to something like Dropbox, this is what happens.
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After logging into iCloud, iOS checks iCloud for the apps you had installed, and it downloads the latest compatible versions from the store. Then, iOS pulls down OS and app preferences from iCloud
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Launch Dropbox, or similar, to pull down your backed up media and files.
Apple gets no money for storage, but Dropbox gets a check.
After ten years, I hit 5GB. I upgraded to 200GB.
For $3/month
There are many, many reasons to bash the shit out of Apple until you’re left with applesauce, and this is the one they chose?
Whatever, guys…
They need to make it your choice (of compliant options where compliant != neutering for the USgovernment) for the default background running option tho, you’re not defending the hero we deserve, only what is forced by their lax regulation
Right now, Apple selectively degrades the experience of effortless syncing thru any other modality than its in-house inferior option. That is wrong and monopolistic and antitrust-worthy action now that the technology is ubiquitous and Applehas the tools to ensure its done consistent with the Apple walled garden gestalt. A gated garden would not be so bad, hell, everybody has one basically
I can’t wait till we get all the Europe stuff! And I’m all in on Apple, i just don’t gratuitously defend their nonsense (upvoted by the way, im not the naysayer. You raise an important defense that needs to be dismantled)
you raise an important defense that needs to be dismantled
Holy shit. Is… is that a fucken rational thinker?
on the Internet‽
The Obstacle is the Way bro
Honestly + selfishly, it makes more sense to uvote for visibillity if you have a child comment you want to be seen so you can
- do justice to a thesis you believe is incorrect
- Justice can be seen to have been done to the thesis you believe is incorrect
Its just straightup the most correct approach in my view
Launch Dropbox, or similar, to pull down your backed up media and files.
It’s not nearly as smooth as having the native solution though, which I believe is what this lawsuit is about. For example, the feature that lets you upload images to iCloud and delete them off your phone, but still have them visible in your photo app comes to mind.
You should take a peak at Google photos does on iOS. It’s basically Apple’s photos app, but all connected to Google’s cloud services. You can autobackup, keep stuff mirrored, keep stuff only in the cloud, only local, a mix of both, etc. I don’t know if it’s smart enough to automatically clear up local space if you don’t interact with a file very often, but I don’t see why a 3rd party developer couldn’t build that.
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So they seem to be arguing that Apple isn’t spending enough money to offer a free service it never had to offer because reasons.
I mean from the article it seemed like not being able to backup completely to different cloud platforms was the bigger issue
Did they previously offer more for free then drop it? I only have a single IPad that’s intentionally not cloud synced just because I’d rather host things local, so I’m not in a place to judge average use, but even my Google account has less than 5GB in it.
It’s been 5gb for 0.99c for more than a decade.
It’s easy to hit 5gb when backing up photos and videos, or message threads that contain photos/video. The space is also shared with the non-backed up data.
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I read this article, because it’s absurd to make a class action lawsuit about the free tier remaining at only 5GB. Apple has the right to give as much or little away for free.
Instead, the lawsuit is about something a lot more lawsuit worthy: The fact that you cannot backup your iPhone with other cloud service providers, providing an unfair advantage to iCloud. This should definitely be illegal.
Additionally, can we have a lawsuit over excessive storage markups (that are over ~2x the gross margin of the device)? This is also basically pure profit.
