A better deal for Ukraine would give it back at least some of its land, plus a promise that the United States and Europe would help defend it against Russia. Perhaps then Putin would think twice about further attacks. In this scenario, Ukraine might not join NATO or the European Union immediately, the prospect of which helped drive Russia’s invasion in the first place.
What is this? It’s astonishing that they admit to that much. I usually I get called a tankie immediately if I point out that there were reasons and the invasion was predictable.
But of course they still expect Ukraine to join EU / NATO, just not “immediately”. Which they already are in all but name. With all the weapons flowing in and all the debts accrued Ukraine must basically be owned by the US / EU now. They are going to privatize the shit out of them.
What a waste. But even with a bad deal this would be a geopolitical win for the US Empire. With climate change advancing food prices will rise and Ukraine as a breadbasket is a major win. Plus having it as a buffer for whatever chaos will surely ensue. Only Ukraine, Russia and the tax payer looses.
With climate change advancing food prices will rise and Ukraine as a breadbasket is a major win.
They get whatever remains of a breadbasket- the global south, ie. the true international community gets the separation of Russia from its empty dreams of being accepted by the west, the accelerated death of the petrodollar and the beginnings of new payment systems through BRICS+, and plenty of other benefits.
Besides, that breadbasket (whatever remains of it) is going to need gas for modern industrial farming. All of Europe is going to need energy for that and more actually, and the cheap sources are now gone (and the non-US sources are now collectively working together). And whatever remains of Ukraine is going to be as stable as one can expect a Banderite-infested Blackrock fiefdom to turn out- frankly, I’d expect a (this time wholly 100% correct- because none of this was even necessary) stab-in-the-back narrative to start playing out, and it might wind up a serious headache and exporter of terrorism to the rest of Europe when this is all over.
Agreed, that said- as a non-white (Asian) who was raised and lives in the west- these countries will find excuses to justify hatred and paranoia, or they’ll create them. It is as natural to western society, and one of the primary characteristics of it and their specific brands of imperialism and neo-imperialism. Post-Soviet and Slavic people could present themselves unilaterally as slaves, belly-up in submission, and “allow” all kinds of atrocities to happen to them without a word of resistance, and the west would still find some way to hate and fear them- to justify their behavior towards them, if nothing else. In other words- nothing of (actual) value was lost, because this was going to happen one way or another. Same with the Islamophobic vitriol, or anti-Asian hate and Sinophobia, and the list goes on- if there had been no resistance or reciprocity, it still would not matter- the west would find a way to demonize and dehumanize even the most incapable of retaliation, in order to offset their own subconscious guilt and justify their continued actions.
If you ask me, this may be “just as planned” (because western states and institutions all work towards these results) but I’m looking forward to the time ahead- if you were to ask me, already increasingly in sight- where western society is relegated to where it belongs, as these are the most racist, imperialist, (actually) barbaric societies in existence, responsible for the bulk of modern evil and that of the past half millennia. Where all those sensible in the west and with means start heading elsewhere and rejecting the demagoguery they were raised within- already if you ask me, this is increasingly becoming the case, as neoliberalism has begun inflicting upon these imperial cores, even just a small fraction of the evils it has always wrought elsewhere, and meanwhile the greater world at large is increasingly able to resist. It won’t matter quite as much as before how much the crackerverse can hate and fear post-Soviet peoples, if their societies increasingly are unattractive for those of post-Soviet descent, if their countries’ narratives of hatred are increasingly falling apart and their contradictions are beginning to tear their own societies apart, and if their own people are even increasingly going so far as to be the ones to emigrate to post-Soviet states, and increasingly looking up to post-Soviet (or better yet, Soviet) culture- or any culture- as better than their own (which it is- all cultures may have their path to travel, but I will argue that western European culture, and Anglo-Saxon culture in particular, with 500 years of racism, imperialism, genocide, and all evils known to humanity being celebrated and indoctrinated into each successive generation, is undeniably inferior and will remain so until it undergoes a thorough cultural revolution that would make those undergone in the Soviet Union or China blush- and that’s a hill I will absolutely die on).
Yeah I’d expect something similar to the “free market shock” after the fall of the USSR. But I can’t honestly judge how true this narrative of “nazi” ideology is in Ukraine. Just like the US, Russia has a reason and a track record to spread lies about this. But even if there is just a kernel of it there it could easily grow after the war is over and the situation turns into one of austerity and privatization.
Bandera is a national hero and a holiday. The commander of the UAF keeps making selfies with his picture and is the “Nordic runes enjoyer” himself. It’s hard to take a photo of any UAF soldier without swastikas or similar Nazi memorabilia. They literally have entire military formations openly devoted to Nazism.
Yes, every country has Nazis, but since WW2 no government ran that far and that open with it, not to mention intentionally arming and organizing them.
But I can’t honestly judge how true this narrative of “nazi” ideology is in Ukraine.
Hell, just look up all the pre-2022 articles on Ukraine’s Nazi problem in western MSM and you’ll have plenty of examples to go off of. If you want to dig further still, you can look up what Ukraine’s Nazis (now with state sanction as part of the military) have been doing to the country’s minorities, those living in the eastern parts of the country, etc. since 2014. Look up the various different Nazi units- even Wikipedia doesn’t bother to hide the continuity between various Nazi organizations and their units integrated into the Ukronazi army- look up Azov as the most famous one, or Right Sector’s “Ukranian Volunteer Corps,” or what was done with the remnants of Aidar battalion, Tornado police battalion, etc- these are just the ones that come to mind, it’s a never-ending list that even the west is not putting all that much effort in hiding.
This is a state which- as someone else noted- celebrates a literal Nazi (Bandera) and props up monuments and museums to him and other Nazi collaborators across the country. None of this is a secret.
What is this? It’s astonishing that they admit to that much. I usually I get called a tankie immediately if I point out that there were reasons and the invasion was predictable.
But of course they still expect Ukraine to join EU / NATO, just not “immediately”. Which they already are in all but name. With all the weapons flowing in and all the debts accrued Ukraine must basically be owned by the US / EU now. They are going to privatize the shit out of them.
What a waste. But even with a bad deal this would be a geopolitical win for the US Empire. With climate change advancing food prices will rise and Ukraine as a breadbasket is a major win. Plus having it as a buffer for whatever chaos will surely ensue. Only Ukraine, Russia and the tax payer looses.
They get whatever remains of a breadbasket- the global south, ie. the true international community gets the separation of Russia from its empty dreams of being accepted by the west, the accelerated death of the petrodollar and the beginnings of new payment systems through BRICS+, and plenty of other benefits.
Besides, that breadbasket (whatever remains of it) is going to need gas for modern industrial farming. All of Europe is going to need energy for that and more actually, and the cheap sources are now gone (and the non-US sources are now collectively working together). And whatever remains of Ukraine is going to be as stable as one can expect a Banderite-infested Blackrock fiefdom to turn out- frankly, I’d expect a (this time wholly 100% correct- because none of this was even necessary) stab-in-the-back narrative to start playing out, and it might wind up a serious headache and exporter of terrorism to the rest of Europe when this is all over.
Further intensifying and serving to justify hatred and paranoia towards people of post soviet descent. Sounds “just as planned”
Agreed, that said- as a non-white (Asian) who was raised and lives in the west- these countries will find excuses to justify hatred and paranoia, or they’ll create them. It is as natural to western society, and one of the primary characteristics of it and their specific brands of imperialism and neo-imperialism. Post-Soviet and Slavic people could present themselves unilaterally as slaves, belly-up in submission, and “allow” all kinds of atrocities to happen to them without a word of resistance, and the west would still find some way to hate and fear them- to justify their behavior towards them, if nothing else. In other words- nothing of (actual) value was lost, because this was going to happen one way or another. Same with the Islamophobic vitriol, or anti-Asian hate and Sinophobia, and the list goes on- if there had been no resistance or reciprocity, it still would not matter- the west would find a way to demonize and dehumanize even the most incapable of retaliation, in order to offset their own subconscious guilt and justify their continued actions.
If you ask me, this may be “just as planned” (because western states and institutions all work towards these results) but I’m looking forward to the time ahead- if you were to ask me, already increasingly in sight- where western society is relegated to where it belongs, as these are the most racist, imperialist, (actually) barbaric societies in existence, responsible for the bulk of modern evil and that of the past half millennia. Where all those sensible in the west and with means start heading elsewhere and rejecting the demagoguery they were raised within- already if you ask me, this is increasingly becoming the case, as neoliberalism has begun inflicting upon these imperial cores, even just a small fraction of the evils it has always wrought elsewhere, and meanwhile the greater world at large is increasingly able to resist. It won’t matter quite as much as before how much the crackerverse can hate and fear post-Soviet peoples, if their societies increasingly are unattractive for those of post-Soviet descent, if their countries’ narratives of hatred are increasingly falling apart and their contradictions are beginning to tear their own societies apart, and if their own people are even increasingly going so far as to be the ones to emigrate to post-Soviet states, and increasingly looking up to post-Soviet (or better yet, Soviet) culture- or any culture- as better than their own (which it is- all cultures may have their path to travel, but I will argue that western European culture, and Anglo-Saxon culture in particular, with 500 years of racism, imperialism, genocide, and all evils known to humanity being celebrated and indoctrinated into each successive generation, is undeniably inferior and will remain so until it undergoes a thorough cultural revolution that would make those undergone in the Soviet Union or China blush- and that’s a hill I will absolutely die on).
Yeah I’d expect something similar to the “free market shock” after the fall of the USSR. But I can’t honestly judge how true this narrative of “nazi” ideology is in Ukraine. Just like the US, Russia has a reason and a track record to spread lies about this. But even if there is just a kernel of it there it could easily grow after the war is over and the situation turns into one of austerity and privatization.
Bandera is a national hero and a holiday. The commander of the UAF keeps making selfies with his picture and is the “Nordic runes enjoyer” himself. It’s hard to take a photo of any UAF soldier without swastikas or similar Nazi memorabilia. They literally have entire military formations openly devoted to Nazism.
Yes, every country has Nazis, but since WW2 no government ran that far and that open with it, not to mention intentionally arming and organizing them.
Hell, just look up all the pre-2022 articles on Ukraine’s Nazi problem in western MSM and you’ll have plenty of examples to go off of. If you want to dig further still, you can look up what Ukraine’s Nazis (now with state sanction as part of the military) have been doing to the country’s minorities, those living in the eastern parts of the country, etc. since 2014. Look up the various different Nazi units- even Wikipedia doesn’t bother to hide the continuity between various Nazi organizations and their units integrated into the Ukronazi army- look up Azov as the most famous one, or Right Sector’s “Ukranian Volunteer Corps,” or what was done with the remnants of Aidar battalion, Tornado police battalion, etc- these are just the ones that come to mind, it’s a never-ending list that even the west is not putting all that much effort in hiding.
This is a state which- as someone else noted- celebrates a literal Nazi (Bandera) and props up monuments and museums to him and other Nazi collaborators across the country. None of this is a secret.
National reactionaries accept the march of history, challenge: impossible