- cross-posted to:
- unions@lemmy.ml
- cars@gearhead.town
- cross-posted to:
- unions@lemmy.ml
- cars@gearhead.town
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Solidarity. Fuck Tesla and their anti union bullshit.
90 percent of their own employees in Sweden are anti-union. Fuck them, right?
This site is like a parody.
I found this video that presents the Swedish view.
The Swedish Tesla Union strike – everything you need to know
It’s in Swedish but has English subtitles.
I find it very interesting, it presents most of the same explanations of Swedish union culture many here have already attempted. What’s particularly interesting to me as an American is that the very things described as undeniably good and persuasive I find horrifying. The fundamental approach that it’s not law but you have to follow cultural tradition or be crushed.
It’s funny. A rich company owner can do whatever they want, primarily by wielding the power that comes with having oodles of excess money. They could decide to shut down a factory, change rules to make people’s lives hell, do all sorts of things that are clearly coercive or arbitrary and people will just shrug and say “It’s their money, and it’s not illegal.”
But the second a bunch of workers get together and decide to wield the very double edged sword of foregoing their meager wages, i.e. to exercise their right in a free market to work or not work, people come out of the woodwork to complain that it is destroying the economy, that it is thuggish, that it is collusion and the end of free society. I guess poor people getting screwed over is just part of the plan, when the rich are inconvenienced it’s suddenly a major problem that must be dealt with forcefully.
Is there an article or anything like that documenting that the majority, or even half, actual Tesla Sweeden employees want to unionize?
Swedish unions don’t work like that. You don’t form a new union at a company, you just join an existing union. In this case, the striking union is IF Metall. They represent mechanics (and other metal workers but that’s less relevant for Tesla). What someone working in HR, sales, marketing or IT support at Tesla thinks about the strike is completely irrelevant. Metall is representing its members, and those would in this case be mechanics. Other employees of Tesla don’t matter to this strike.
Shut up bot. Your owner is pathetic, Elon Musk has stooped to a new low by using AI chat bots to push his anti-union agenda. And I don’t have shit else to say to a bot. Anyone who doubts me, look up the recent thread in its comment history where this user was exposed as a bot.
It’s Sweden. It doesn’t work like that there
How does it work there?
Unionisation in Sweden (and frankly most countries outside of the US) is not done per-business, it’s done per-industry, and you are able to freely join a union for the industry you work in regardless of your employer’s opinion. The striking employees are already unionised, and the strike is over Tesla’s failure to sign on to collective bargaining agreements (like every other automaker in Sweden has) that guarantee certain entitlements like minimum wages, holidays and other things. The striking employees are part of IF Metall, a union that covers metalworkers, mechanics and the like, thus the opinions of any worker at Tesla in Sweden who is not in those industries is completely irrelevant, because the CBA in question does not cover them.
Thanks. So there are some logical follow up questions:
- What does the union want that Tesla is not providing?
- If this bargaining agreement is required , why were these mechanics “allowed” to hired on without one in place?
Where is the deficiency, exactly?
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Part of pensions, accrued time off, yearly raises not based on how much the boss likes you.
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The union and Tesla has been in CBA talks since like 2018 it recently broke down when Tesla left the negotiation table, prompting these strikes.
The union and Tesla has been in CBA talks since like 2018 i
Visste jag inte, var har du sett det?
A so Tesla was negotiating in bad faith. Surprise!
Yeah, they brought in scabs after the strikes started, prompting every other union to initiate their own measures.
They brought this on themselves.
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- The unions wants there to be a minimum wage, the same one as other mechanics. Tesla say they already have so no worry here, but the union say it’s lower then the rest in the sector so it’s difficult to say who is right.
The union also want a minimal increase to the wages each year to keep up with inflation, as now Tesla don’t need to give anyone a raise ever, if they don’t want to.
The union also want there to be a way to take out partial pension for the workers who want this, similar to other people in Sweden.
And they want the workers at Tesla to have adjustment support if they are fired due to sickness or labour shortage to help them find a new job.
I think those are the main ones. Very minimal things that everyone else has.
- Why wouldn’t the mechanics be allowed to be hired? It’s a free market and nothing would stop them from being hired. It’s up to the company who they hire and up to the worker to accept that offer, with some basic laws in place about discrimination and such.
Finally, a salient answer. I can work with that. It seems that nobody would accept an offer of employment at a lower wage than they could get elsewhere, so, I’m dubious on that claim by the union.
I see the points about increases. There are no ‘laws’ about increases being mandatory/ written in stone here in the U.S. either. From the context of my experience at companies I’ve worked for, it depends on company performance. In profitable years the increase is more than less profitable years. That does leave the door open for a company to not be honest but then an employee has the option/freedom to leave that company for a better one. In general, those companies that are better in this regard (pay, retirement/pension benefits, etc) are more sought after and have higher employee retention.
I’ve left companies I wasn’t happy with after voluntarily accepting the offer of employment. I think that’s a fundamental difference in perspectives on this issue: some people say there is freedom to move to where you’re treated best and you have the option of accepting terms of employment or not when they are offered versus the others who say any company they work for must provide a certain set of benefits even if the employee initially accepted the terms offered which did not include those…
Why did the mechanics take the job, then?
The increases in the CBA is very low. It’s to ensure you that you get at least some increase. Because if you don’t, and there is inflation, you are essentually have less buying power even if you have one more year of experience.
It has to go really bad for a company, or the employee has to do really bad to get the minimum raise as stated in the CBA. Just like everywhere else, you get more raise when the company does well, it’s the difference between zero and just above zero.
Why would anyone take the job? One answer is that they couldn’t get any other job, or the jobs thay could take with better pay was too far away. Or that the rent was due and the job at Tesla was the quickest one available, at that point you are in no position to argue about part time retirement. There’s many occasions when you have to take a job even if you think the wages is too low. That’s why the different companies sit down together with the union and discuss what’s the absolute lowest reasonable pay.
Note that this also can be a useful play by the companies. If Tesla can pay higly over the lowest pay. They can go into those negotiations trying to press that number up so that their competition also have to pay more.
Why would anyone care about that number? The folks who don’t want to join unions don’t have to. A bunch of machinists joined the Machinist’s union, and Tesla is antagonizing them. So the machinists are striking.
Why would it matter whether or not the cafeteria workers don’t want to join the cafeteria union? Or do you just not understand the system? Unions are by profession, not corporation.
Is there an article or anything like that documenting that the majority, or even half, actual Tesla Sweeden employees want to unionize?
I’m curious, why would that matter?
Question to anyone who can answer:
if a bargaining agreement is required, as IF Metal says it is, then why were the mechanics allowed to Hire in to Tesla without one in place in the first place?
- Freedom of movement for workers. A union wont stop a person from taking a job.
- IF metal wants a Collective Bargaining Agreement that Tesla needs to meet at a minimum, this protects workers from one sided at will changes to arrangements from Teslas part, such as termination of employment, pensions and yearly salary increases.
So, a Union won’t stop a person from taking a job but will actively see to insert itself when a person does. There are Several ways that can be interpreted.
The implication is that the mechanics sought out Tesla (Applied,for,employment) and then accepted the Terms of Employment,ent offered. Now the union comes in after seeking to,change those terms. On top of that, there is no confirmation as far as I have seen (in Swedish language, or English) that Tesla has treated the mechanics unfairly:
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Is Telsa not meeting the minimum wage? They mechanics accepted the salary and terms governing and increase (changes) it when they ‘signed on’. Did they not?
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there is the same observation for termination of employment, pensions, as well as yearly salary increases. All of these topics are,standard,things covered in a,corporations Terms of Employment, which a new employee signs (legally) when they accept an offer of employment. And, that’s if these topics aren’t covered by govt law as they are here in the U.S.`.
So, if the employees accepted those terms, it sounds like this all reduces down the the Union inserting itself with claims that this agreement is necessary after the mechanics, by virtue of their accepting the company’s Terms of Employment, saying that they were satisfied with those terms. And, this is on top of not demonstrating how, as many have claimed (subjectively) here in this topic post that (paraphrasing) ‘Tesla is mistreating its employees’.
This,is,all standard rhetoric also here in the U.S. as the recent UAW leader’s speeches show. They say that to get support in the media as well as and keep its me,hers motivated. However, the underlying theme is,that the union just wants more power. Does any of that carry over into the Sweedish context?
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Solidarity. Fuck IF Metall and their anti freedom bullshit. Tesla workers never asked for this strike. IF Metall is doing it in their own interests.
Funny how every single comment in this thread goes on and on about unions but nobody is asking why Tesla isn’t just signing the deal like every other car company operating in Sweden.
It’s not the unions singling out Tesla and try to be mean to Musk, it’s Musk trying to impose his right wing ideology on another country. It’s clearly not a financial question because according to you, Tesla workers are already paid as well or better than the rest, so nothing would change.
funny how everyone on Reddit thinks that Musk is right wing when he simply disagrees with their opinion. maybe “funny” is not the right word…
Openly supporting right wing candidates has that effect.
What the fuck does this have to do with right wing ideology,???
Good question. People are projecting their ideology.
Standard for the Internet…
Being anti union is by definition right wing.
What’s super fun is talking to right wingers who are part of a union. Theirs is the only good one.
uh the right is extremely anti union, and musk is a rightwing nutjob? like how do you not know this
Uhm… everything
chill
I am just trying to understand why people insist on bringing in this stupid shit into every discussion. Not everything is politics and I am sick and tired of people and their idiotic rants about it.
Tesla made the mistake of doing business in Sweden before looking at their rules. Had they done so, they’d have noticed that their rules contradict tesla company policy. So now. They’ll have to figure it out. It has zero to do with left or right wing.
there’s a reason why a lot of CEO don’t like to talk much because it influences the consumers whether or not they should get their product…
imagine if apple starts attacking republicans every time all of a sudden…
This sub needs a sort by stock portfolio option.
Solidarity with the workers!
Agreed, Tesla workers there by far don’t want a union.
Zero understanding of how unions work ^
I understand they often work in their own (often criminal) interests, with no interest in what the majority of workers in a company actually want.
Case in point, the 2 consecutive UAW heads who are literally convicted criminals lol
I understand they often work in their own (often criminal) interests
Yeah totally not a right wing grifter
Not sure if those UAW heads convicted are right wing, maybe grifters.
I’m sure they want the minimum standards the union would provide. Asked for by the Tesla workers who are unionized and currently striking.
Stupid unions.
did they sell 10k cars in sweden last year? maybe not worth it
Nothing is stopping them from leaving. Though I have a feeling that Sweden will be just fine without Tesla.
Or maybe Tesla could just sign the deal and be done with it? But it seems like it’s more important to Musk to impose his extremist ideology on Sweden than just get along with them.
Well, it seems like there’s no clarification coming in this thread about what actual Tesla employees are asking for a union so …. How about another Toyota Solid-stare Battery post? Those always get the juices going.
Its 130 employees who are both tesla employees and are unionized in IF Metal who are trying to enforce their will. So yes, its actual tesla sweeden employees who are striking.
Amd they didnt give any sources… I guess the author flew to sweden himself and investigated…
Wait, are you arguing that a union shouldn’t cover wages if they can when members strike?
this is my christmas present this year. the swedish union has the balls to f with the richest man in the world. love it.
Musk hasn’t been the richest in a while. His Tesla stock lost too much value and he spent $40 billion on Twitter.
Ain’t no war like the class war
Do Tesla workers in Sweden get Stock Options like the workers in the U.S.?
Yes per Teslarati:
When asked why they did not join IF Metall’s planned walkout, the Tesla staff reportedly noted that they did not see the need to strike because their working conditions and wages were already better than their previous workplaces.
Some younger employees also reportedly stated that their salary and career paths are much better at Tesla as compared to other automakers. They also appreciated the fact that they were issued stock options from the company, some of whom have reportedly seen an increase of several hundred percent to date.
What is interesting is that IF Metall and the Tesla workers in Sweden had actually met several times in the past. The employees, however, were reportedly unimpressed with what the union was offering.
For those who automatically discount anything from Teslarati, here are some Swedish links about the strike."
Strejken hos Tesla - Ingen ställde upp
And Google Translate
Why post different links if they all use the same source?
Bad bot
Yes, and they still can have that if the CBA is signed.
Can anyone explain why they started striking in the first place?
They want handouts. It’s basically like all unions: A small group of usually old, poorly performing employees who hold the company hostage for more money. These guys aren’t even Tesla employees and they couldn’t care less about them.
How can it be about hand outs when they literally get nothing out of it? The union does not take any money from the company and workers does not need to join the union to be covered by the CBA.
Sir, you have just described upper management behavior.
All unions? That’s…I’m not even sure what to call it :p Average age in our bargaining unit where I work is around 35.
No handouts, it’s about tesla signing minimum benefits which is salary, vacation, work hours and other basic benefits.
As of now tesla is not obligated by any cba to keep basic levels, if it is like tesla and those supporting claims that things are better than this deal then nothing will change for Tesla by signing.
^^
The Swedish union IF Metall called the strike, not the Tesla employees, because IF Metall had been unsuccessful in voluntarily getting Tesla to participate.
If a company can be forced…. It’s not voluntary.
You’re right, thankfully they can’t be forced.
Pretty much…
I have to wonder: I Tesla is not treating their Swedish employees fairly, wouldn’t there be extremely progressive Swedish labor laws that would be violated? How could Tesla be taking advantage of its Swedish employees who voluntarily took the job? If Tesla somehow breached agreements or wasn’t meeting wage/benefit laws of the country, wouldn’t they be in court as a defendant or paying fines?
Identifying where’all this is coming from’ seems hard to do since there doesn’t seem to be clear and documented violations against employee rights, pay, benefits.
Were getting really tired of explaining how this works in Sweden. We dont do stuff like minimum wage-laws here. All such stuff is negotiated through the CBA. Thats why i CBA is just standard practice here, its also a floor, not a ceiling so if Tesla wants to there is no problem signing a CBA and then offer better benefits than the CBA stipulates.
So why did the employees go to work for Tesla if there was no CBA in place when they chose to hire on?
No company starts out with a CBA, it gets done later, and when enough members of the union want a CBA the union and the company in question will negotiate one. This is standard practice here for companies. And om not speaking of places with like one or two employees. Enough members have now asked for a CBA and IF Metall have tried for years to get one done.
Tesla will not win this fight.
How many Tesla Sweden employees, by %, have asked for a union? I ask because others here, who,are seemingly in favor of the idea, have stated that it doesn’t’t take a minimum number of employees. I.e., there’s conflicting opinions on that from people,who support the effort.
I ask because others here, seemingly in favor of the idea, have stated that it doesn’t take a minimum number of employees.
It doesn’t. It wouldn’t matter if it was 1% of employees or 99%, if any number of union members working at Tesla asked the Union for help to negotiate the CBA then the Union would have to step in and try to open negotiations. And that is what has happened.
The only reason there is conflicting opinions is that it is illegal to try to list who is in the union and who is on strike. This makes it really easy for Tesla to spread misinformation while the union really doesn’t give a shit. They know nothing will change from how the internet views this.