I want to ask the hardcore Porsche guys here a question:
Porsche and 911 in particular are considered the pinnacle of automotive engineering excellence. But is there something you miss from other cars you have owned or driven? Is there a car brand that does something a little better? For e.g. steering feel of a Lotus or transmission shifts of a Ferrari or something like that?
I will leave out the obvious: I know Porsche is not known for luxury of a Rolls Royce/Bentley… So :)
Naturally aspirated Ferrari V8 and V12 engines sound much nicer than anything Porsche offers.
Sound is very subjective.
- Attractive interiors
- Actual Gran Turismos (RIP 928)
- 12 cylinders
Value: Chevrolet Corvette Z06. 90 percent the car of a GT3 RS for 60 percent of the price.
Driving dynamics: Lotus’ entire gas-powered lineup. Colin Chapman’s mantra of “simplify, then add lightness” continues to work wonders. If given the choice between a Boxster GTS and a supercharged Emira, I’m taking the Emira.
Those are really the only two places where Porsche is beaten.
Not sure about simplicity, but Emira is the same weight as Cayman if not more.
Cup holders
Or in my case, glove compartments.
What’s a cup holder?
The 991 era cupholders will never ever be beaten. I can’t understand why they got rid of them.
The dash cupholders? Had the same ones in the 997 gen too…
I actually rather like the hidden holders on my 987.1
Ford, Chevrolet and Dodge all sell crate engines for their enthusiast customers.
Oh god, crate engine GT3 for a 2s plz.
Fuck it, I’ll throw one in a beetle
These are the same. 😎
Crate GT3 engine probably goes for $70k+
Yeah, I miss bench seats too.
Imagine…
Porsche has begun doing crazy things. I’d love to see them sell their engines.
What do they have to lose? If the world is truly going electric then fuck it.
I saw a Taycan Cross Turismo for the first time today… OMFG it’s gorgeous… MUCH bigger car than I would have thought though.
Smart cars are smaller.
Wish they had an M5 or a E63S equivalent
Or an M3…
I remember when the Panamera was supposedly to be comparable to the S class or 7 series, but sporty, but also a step above CLS/6 series gran coupe.
Basic options included as standard.
Thanks for acknowledging my pain.
It’s amazing that Porsche can sell lane keep assist and adaptive cruise for something like $3,000 when it’s standard on Honda/Acura products, and in my experience works about just as well as those cars.
The other one that kills me is how garbage Porsche’s base audio systems are. The sound systems in Honda and Toyota rental cars I’ve driven sound better. Even the Bose option that Porsche sells for ~$1,000 is lacking compared to the basic sound system in the BMW I used to own.
Also, spending over $100k on a 911 or Cayenne for the base interior to be plastic/vinyl of mediocre material quality (build quality is still good) is pretty lame.
“Light design package” is the most absurd I think.
Yep!
When you pay $26k in options to know that basic brands like KIA offers them with a single trim. 😅
Many of the options are so absurd that no other car maker would dare to offer them.
But kia didn’t even offer reliable motors after 250kms
Lamborghinis come with better stock exhaust systems than pretty much any Porsche, 911 GT3 RS included. Lambo and Ferrari have better sense of occasion, are visceral and raw, Porsche always feel very gentlemen like, too civilized, albeit being better track cars.
“better” exhaust in what sense? Sound? Or are they leaving performance on the table?
The civility is a very subjective issue, I think it comes down to preferring German restraint to Italian high drama (the VAG Lambos make a fascinating fusion thereof.) I remember when the Audi R8 came out people were dinging it as being “boring” and I couldn’t imagine a car that pretty taking a turn at 100mph with all the effort of going to get the groceries being considered boring.
Honestly, as unpopular as I will sound right now, I feel this whole Italians doing the “drama” thing and whatever some car fans call “soulful” or “emotional” and calling Germans “boring” is a bit too exaggerated. Yeah, even as a die-hard Porsche person, I harbor love towards the Ferrari V12, but to outright call a Porsche or any relative German sports car “boring” or “soulless” is an overused trope, be it in exhaust sound, design, etc. IMHO. Personally, anyone who calls an R8 (particularly the OG) boring is just talking out of their rear end.
Regarding sound, I’ll give the benefit of the doubt towards anything turbo as Turbocharged engines aren’t known for sound. However, engines like the N/A 4.0L Flat 6 (even those in the RSR cup cars), certain V8s (older GTS models and even the 918), the older race car engines like the Flat 8 and 12, V10, etc. are all some incredibly special engines created by Porsche. The driving experience is also unique and special in its own regard.
For Design, Porsche has always preferred being understated. I personally find that an appealing quality to Porsche at a time when many folks prefer Italian exotics for the brand name and flexing the status alone.
One thing I was really disappointed with when I bought my 992 was the exhaust sounds. Previously I had a G82 with only the resonators removed and it sounded amazing. To get the sound I wanted out of my Porsche I had to spent $7500 on a full titanium exhaust system and then a $2500 tune from M-Engineering in order to allow the valved system to open fully. The stage 2 tune also increased the hp up to 600 and the torque up to 650nm. It sounds amazing now and better than the G82 but it took some work and some money.
I could care less how it sounds, as long as it passes sound levels at tracks. I bought the Dundon quiet muffler for that reason. Same weight, same HP.
I personally would like a quieter car. Less of a cop magnet, and would make talking easier…
Plenty of cars now have “fake” sound. Either fake bass pumped through the speakers, or special vibration panels.
What problems you have with the exhaust on the 992? Think it’s great personally but it’s all up to the person. Btw you don’t need the m engineering tune for the valves to open fully there’s some other thing it’s cheaper, it’s at the top of Rennlist I forgot it’s name
Why not just straight pipe it?
I dunno. This is super subjective. Although I love the drama of the exhaust of a Ferrari or Lambo, I also appreciate the symphony of sounds I get from my bone stock 991.1S exhaust. It’s beautiful, screams “take me to the track”, and IMO more sophisticated. Also I honestly don’t love how most regular people get pissed off by the exhaust of a Lambo. Not sure if I’d want to deal with that every weekend.
Affordable maintenance
Battery for the new Cayenne is about $2800 and you can pay up to $4200 with install!
That is financial molestation.
Where are you getting these prices from?
That’s significantly less than I would have expected
Amen
I don’t get how maintenance is expensive? Yeah, if you go to a dealer it’s outrageous, but going to a dealer for a Civic is also outrageous. Indy mechanics pretty much level the field as far as maintenance cost goes…
You can get an oil change on a Civic for like $65 at any Honda dealership around here. The oil change on my Panamera was $685. Sure the labor rate at an Indy is half the dealerships, but a Porsche Indy is waaayy more than a Honda Indy.
Even if you take it to an Indy, the parts can be expensive and typically the labor hours is higher. You have to take the bumper off a Cayenne and Panamera to change the air filter, which is like 7 hours labor charge. A set of tires is like $2000 for most Porsches. Rotors and pads are $1300 for parts, add another $150 if you need new sensors.
I can get the oil changed for a 911 for $65 too if I use shit oil and shit filter at any jiffy lube. Same goes for tires. You can’t compare shit oil and tires to fully synthetic oil and z rated tires….
I dunno where you’re getting your rotors and pads for, but I just got all 4 rotors, and pads for $800 for my 911 2 years ago. Not some crap either, I got Pagid ceramic pads and Zimmerman rotors. I just bought rear pads 2 days ago cause they needed to be changed and the pads ($65) with sensors ($13) including 2 hours of labor to rebleed to entire brake system with fluid was just over $300. Brake sensors are $13 for a pair. Porsche brand ones are $26…so I dunno where you’re getting $150 for sensors and $1500 for brakes…. It took 2 years for the rear pads to wear out and I daily and track this car 3 times a year.
Those prices are slightly higher than that of a Civic using comparable oil, pads, and tires…but it’s not outrageously more.
Just to replace the OEM rotors on my Civic Type R would be about $800 - maybe a hair less. If I wanted aftermarket rotors from Girodisc or Paragon or something, it would be over $800 even without needing to buy the hats. We aren’t even talking about pads yet. I also track my car and those pads are ~$400 alone, and I’m not even up to the most aggressive compounds yet. Full synthetic oil change is about $100.
Your Porsche maintenance numbers sound questionable to me, but I’ve never owned a Porsche.
Just did my pads and discs. I completely agree.
I’ll settle for less than a two month wait on getting service scheduled at this point
Hard to pick on company that does it better b/c they’re always in a state of flux with redesigns…but Porsche controls suck, particularly menu logic. Most of the Germans are bad; Audi may be the best, M-B currently the worst, though VW is really trying hard to catch up to M-B
Maybe Uconnect is best though the new system in Tonale and Hornet is pretty crappy. GM May actually have one of the best UIs and controls in the industry now.
Was just going to say how sad it is that my wife’s new Yukon has a better UI that my new 911
Audi is literally VW 💀
I personally just assumed everyone uses CarPlay/Android Auto.
True; but so many systems integrate hvac that you have to move about the system. Or if you listen to the radio or SiriusXM
Why do you think Mercedes has the worst infotainment?
The touchpads are too small and too sensitive. Makes it a major PITA to do a thing while moving. Requires super fine motions and attention that isn’t in sync with driving in traffic, etc. really distracting.
I personally like it. Because Mercedes gives you the option of controls. Touchscreen, touchpad, steering wheel pads, voice controls. I only use the steering wheel pads for simple tasks like skipping songs. Otherwise you are right. They aren’t easy to use but not unusable.
Personally when I had a bmw M5 with the DCT i thought it was better than the PDK, it felt more like a manual transmission and even the shifter felt nicer. Another thing porsche lacks is power compared to bmw and some other brands… for more $ than a bmw u get less power… a base 718 is the same as a m4 in price and m4 will blow it away
Interior exoticness of a Ferrari Lambo Mclaren. At least for the cars I think deserve it (GT cars)
That is one of my favorite things about Porsche
Depreciate.
The Infotainment of Porsches in general lacked behind for a long time, they are starting to catch up but are definetly late on some things.
What’s crazy is Audi infotainment is ahead of Porsche. I’ve had both and Audi is more intuitive.
Not having Android Auto is just downright ignorant
But then again I guess GM is gonna make Porsche look not that bad once they discontinue CarPlay and Android Auto