Measured by revenue less cost of operations (opex) and cost to carry capex (interest or opportunity cost) is there any proof that non-Tesla DC fast chargers are making any money from charging? Breaking even?
If they are, why aren’t more companies getting into installing chargers for profit?
If they aren’t, how do we ever get to sustainable, operational infrastructure that meets consumer expectations like the gas stations they’re used to?
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to lower capex costs, i think we should run these DC charging stations from diesel or natural gas generators.
We can thereby skip the expensive grid and transformer upgrades ?
It’s been done with batteries. The idea is that they take energy from the grid at a low cheap rate (sometimes from solar panels) and then when a car comes by, discharge rapidly into it. There are multiple vendors with battery backed DCFC.
You should read their quarterly report or an 8-K. The answer is yes they are profitable.
Franklin’s charging hub that has two locations is profitable at $0.35/kW and the big guys buying at wholesale get better rates. Then throw in SRECs (link)
I’d bet most locations are unprofitable at the moment. Having said that, some are really heavily utiilzed.
All those Tesla stations in LV that are busy day and night almost have to be profitable. Same for a lot of urban locations in CA.
And EA has this one weird trick to minimize demand charges. They just leave half the stalls broken to improve profits! /s
Starbucks and fast food chains should really hop on changing station bandwagon…
Even with fast charging you will still dwell for 15-20min, there should be a amenity that lets you go pee and sit down for a short break near every charger.
I think that DC fast charging depots will be with us for far less time than gas stations have been. Why? Because embedded touchless roadway chargers are a real possibility on interstates. You charge while you drive.
I mean I doubt it makes more than having vending machines somewhere. They sell the electricity to you for maybe 20 cents more per kWh than what they pay for it. You put in 50 kWh for 30 minutes they’re keeping $10. Hypothetically I guess each station could make $20/hr profit then right?
The chargers themselves aren’t high cost items. What costs a lot of money and is really complicated is the lease deals with the property owners as well as getting through the necessary local permit processes.
That’s why more companies haven’t done them yet. But I expect that will change very soon.
I’m not sure there’s any proof Tesla chargers are making money.
Tesla doesn’t break out the revenue and costs of their Supercharger network- they bundle those numbers with other services. In a tweet, Elon Musk once said Tesla “shoots for 10% profit” on charging, implying it was a target they hadn’t hit yet.
Public charging is necessary for EV adoption, but it’s probably still far too early in the transition for anyone to be making money at it yet.
It makes sense for Tesla to treat charging as a loss leader
At first, sure. It was a necessary cost center to promote vehicle sales.
I suspect its close to profitable now (if not perhaps already profitable) so expanding it to other EVs now makes sense.
I don’t care about whether Tesla is or isn’t profitable with their superchargers. They are executing regardless. They’re rapidly installing new chargers. They repair their chargers. Their chargers work. So whether they’re doing what they’re doing and losing or making money doesn’t matter much. They’re doing it.
Others really aren’t. I wanted to discuss whether profitability (or lack thereof) was the potential motive for not expanding, not repairing, and not caring. Or why others aren’t aggressively swooping in to claim territory and carve out more than their fair share.
They are profitable - just not very. You also have to take into account that there’s not one but several people trying to make a buck on each charging session: The energy provider, the charge point operator and the provider of the payment service module. The profit margin for each of those is very slim.
If they aren’t, how do we ever get to sustainable, operational infrastructure that meets consumer expectations
You get auto companies to realize that charging is part of the utility of what they are selling - and those then set up/operate charging infrastructure at cost (which is what Tesla is doing).
Just FYI: Most places there is already adequate charging infrastructure and the buildout is keeping pace with the rate of adoption.