iOS 17.2 hints at Apple moving towards letting users sideload apps from outside the App Store::undefined
Great. I’m looking forward to hearing all the Apple zealots change their tune on side-loading from "iOS is more secure because it doesn’t allow side-loading " to “side-loading is amazing, I’m so glad Apple invented it!”
I fully expect they will make it challenging and plastered with scary warnings.
I’m ok with that.
I would, in fact, advocate for scary warnings.
Blanket scary warnings for all apps that don’t use their app store can and will be used to dissuade their tech illiterate user base from ever daring to try something outside the garden.
Using “security guidelines” to scare people away from using anything outside an ecosystem is more abusable than people are willing to talk about, and it happens a lot nowadays.
Well ya can’t fix stupid. All you can do is try and help them make informed decisions.
I’ve had iPhones for 15 years now. I’ve wanted side loading the entire time. It’ll be nice if I can do that without jailbreaking, but I won’t be holding my breath.
This is probably the main reason why I don’t use an iphone. I was surprised I had to jailbreak for such a simple functionality when I first got my iphone 4. That was my first and last iphone.
Where were you when I was arguing with some dude on Reddit about how people “buy iPhones specifically because they can’t sideload” 🙃
Like no, there are lots of genuinely good reasons to buy an iPhone… This is not one
Thank you Tim Apple for freeing me from choice just because the same people that send gift cards to the “IRS” would likely install 85 safari toolbars if sideloading was enabled.
But why would you do that though. It’s a phone company, I couldn’t give two shits which phone someone uses. If someone were trying to drag me into an argument about something so mundane I’d probably just agree with them so we can move past the subject.
Because constructive criticism makes the world go around. There are things I like about iOS, that’s definitely not one.
There are also ethical issues involving the lack of sideloading. Imagine Microsoft had never allowed people to install unapproved software in Windows. There would be a lot of Chinese folks that get around the great firewall that never would’ve been able to do so. Taking sideloading away makes it very easy for the CCP to just say “don’t sell that on your store” and for that to be the end of the story.
People argue about OSes too. It’s petty. Use what you want. It’s your money and your time.
Because which phones (and any other product, for that matter) people choose to buy ultimately affects the direction of the entire industry. See: headphone jacks.
You can already sideload by using AltStore. There is some drawbacks but it’s worth it
Why not just get an Android phone instead of encouraging the company that doesn’t want you to do what you want?
I’ve used Android devices before and just didn’t like them as much.
No no, they will say that apple does it the right way. Instead of downloading and installing a file like a peasant, you will do it through x-code, using your paid developer account only available on Apple hardware. And of course with massive limitations that apps from the app store don’t have.
I’m only half joking, I really expect Apple to make it the most miserable experience, to them say “well, nobody is doing it!”
man i wish side-loading was real
LOL
For everyone rejoicing in this thread, there’s no way Apple will allow this outside the EU. From the article:
We also found references to a region lock in this API, which suggests that Apple could restrict it to specific countries. This wouldn’t make sense for MDM solutions, but it does make sense for enabling sideloading in particular countries only when required by authorities – such as in the European Union.
I want side loading as much as the next guy, but Apple will only do the bare minimum to appease the EU regulations. Suck for those of us outside the EU.
Yeah, software is way easier to manage over borders than hardware - they already do that with their different App Stores. The comparison to USBC isn’t valid.
However, I wonder if it would be easy enough to trick your device into thinking it’s somewhere else. Recently had to download an app from the US App Store (I am Canadian) and all it took was creating a new account and declaring my country as USA. If it was that easy, I’m sure plenty of people would be happy enough making an alt Apple ID for side loading.
I’m sure plenty of people would be happy enough making an alt Apple ID for side loading.
Except you can’t just spin up an alt account on virtually any service anymore. I know because I always try to create anonymous accounts. These companies want your data and they need an identity to link it to, not to mention preventing bot spam. They will always want to at the very least verify your phone number via SMS, and they can detect if you’re using VoIP now. And even if you could, AAALLLLLL your data and settings would be left on the other account.
Just move to the EU and you won’t have that problem.
Will setting language to UK be enough?
On that line of thinking Ireland might be a good choice - they speak English and are still in the EU.
Not sure the UK would be a valid option, the laws that the EU are passing now aren’t making their way to the UK anymore so if Apple wanted to be thorough they’d block it in the UK too
Ah, right.
We don’t know yet, but the rumor mill says the setting will be geo locked. So probably not.
F-Droid for iOS?
How about F-apple (read without the “-”) ;)
Would be kinda funny thoughF-App Store
Fap store
What phone is that?
—— It’s a Fapple.
As a current iPhone owner the one thing I miss about android is how easy it was to install apps from outside the play store.
Maybe we will get a better web browser one day!
Firefox isn’t available for iPhone ?
It is, but apple forces all browsers to be reskinned safari under the hood
Only safari (webkit} shells. There’s been rumors of apple preparing to open up that requirement for appstore approval, but hasn’t happened yet as far as I know.
Honestly that, and not being able to side load, are the only things holding me from switching. Yes I could get a pixel and install graphene OS on it, but I don’t have time for that anymore and I just want a simple solution that gets support out of the box, and allows me to run the apps I want.
I’m not going so far as to say I’d switch – but I’d certainly get an iPhone and give it a try if it had sideloading/other app stores allowed (which in turn would allow other browser engines, since that’s a store limitation). Would love to see an F-Droid equivalent for iOS start up.
This will be huge. I wonder if this way we could also get non-WebKit browser on iOS someday.
Yes, we will. This was also specifically demanded by the EU and has to be implemented by March 6th 2024.
It’s being said that Google and Mozilla already have iOS-versions of Chrome and Firefox ready for this.
This is the last thing holding Google back from total domination of the web browser space. You know most people will just download Chrome when something doesn’t work, since they already use it on their PC/Mac.
While I don’t think that holding users hostage is the best thing to do, the reality is that enough people just don’t care, and the iPhone and iPad’s popularity forces web devs to make their sites work on Safari and not just Chrome. Once a real Chrome is available on iOS, all bets are off.
There was a huge gush over Chrome by developers and powerusers, influencing many many users to adopt Chrime; the same gush that happened over IE back in the day.
Everyone developed everything for IE. Had to have it to be on a wide segment of the web. Same way with Chrome now.
People have started falling off of Chrime /Google browsers just as they did Microsoft and IE; both times users finally realizing just how shite the company and browser were/are.
People have started falling off of Chrime /Google browsers just as they did Microsoft and IE; both times users finally realizing just how shite the company and browser were/are.
Is there actually any proof of this?
From my quick check, Chromium-based browsers have a very steady market share. Firefox has remained exactly the same. Safari has went up 0.8% and is obviously going to drop substantially when other browser engines are allowed on iOS.
Sure, Chrome has went down by 2%, but Opera and Edge have captured that. And they’re both just chrome under the bonnet.
Yeah, I know maybe like two other people who use Firefox. Everybody else uses Chrome. And it’s been that way for the last decade or so.
I still prefer Firefox, but I worry about its future because most people, including web developers, just don’t care.
Development of IE stagnated after Microsoft put Netscape out of business, because Microsoft got complacent, until Mozilla resurrected the remains of Netscape and saved the web. Then Chrome came along and Google convinced almost everybody to switch to it, including competing browsers like Opera. Chrome was originally based on Safari’s WebKit (a fork of Konqueror’s rendering engine KHTML), but then Google forked it (Blink) so they’d maintain control of it.
From what I’ve heard, most web devs only test on Chrome since every browser other than Firefox and Safari is based on it. And nobody seemed to care until very recently, because they didn’t think a browser based on an open source project could possibly be a problem.
I’m honestly not surprised any of this happened, and I stick to Firefox and Safari myself, but I do worry about the ramifications of getting a real Chrome on the iPhone and iPad. I never liked Chrome and don’t want to be forced to use it.
After Google EEE’d chromium it was all over. A perfect bait & switch by google after everyone switched to chromium bases. MS fumbled the bag and now Goog is doing the same thing. People generally don’t like to be forced to do anything; and I’m with you and them.
You can run Chrome on an iPhone now.
It’s reskinned safari. Same with Firefox. Apple doesn’t allow alternative browser engines currently, you have to use their WebKit frame to display the actual pages.
This is what is changing per the EU’s ruling, and why browser extensions from the desktop versions will start to work on iPhones.
Is firefox on iOS a webkit wrapper? https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/browsers/mobile/ios/
Yes, all browsers on iOS are
Unfortunately, yes.
Huh, interesting! (also 👎)
This will be huge.
It won’t be really. Android already has sideloading but the vast majority don’t even know you can download stuff outside of the Play Store.
Really hope it won’t be just in the EU but it seems likely to be that way :/
Time to switch to buying my upgrades when I visit family in Europe.
Can’t wait to see how this will be an implementation designed to be crippled, like they did with web push (why can’t i enable non silent notifications?)
You’re right on the money. They’re trying to region lock it. Unlikely that US and possibly UK customers will get it.
We also found references to a region lock in this API, which suggests that Apple could restrict it to specific countries. This wouldn’t make sense for MDM solutions, but it does make sense for enabling sideloading in particular countries only when required by authorities – such as in the European Union.
Thank you EU 🇪🇺
If sideloading happen I will buy a spanking new iPhone 15 Pro. It’s the one big thing that is missing that Android has
Wait, what? Every version of Android has been able to sideload. I do it for at least one app on a monthly basis
You’re reading it wrong from his intent. He means that’s the one thing android has that apple doesn’t.
Ah, okay. Thanks
Sorry for the confusion and thanks to ColeSloth for clarifying. I fixed the text.
Finally! I have been interesting in developing some apps for personal use, but I don’t want to pay a developer fee and go through the App Store. It’s so much hassle.
Getting ahead of the court order I presume.
Kinda? They have to do it soon, and betas are where they would do it. They wouldn’t just make a “last day possible” update, that would just be bad development practice. Imagine if they were delayed.
Just give me a N64 emu and an Arduino IDE
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I remember when that was just how it was.
Ah yes, the fabled year of two thousand and didn’t happen.
