Could do without the religious imagery. In the bible, god commanded Moses and his army to rape children. Maybe god is also a demon? Or more obviously, a human-made excuse to give one’s own ego divine authority.

There is no limit to the evil a person can do when they believe in magic because there is no accountability. “God sent these kids for me to take advantage of.” How do we prove them wrong?

it does not prove plants aren’t conscious

Because a negative can’t be proven.

it casts doubt on the existing claims that they are.

Because evidence does not support those claims.

Theists use this same fallacious logic to pretend it’s acceptable to worship bronze age death gods.

Let’s all use our brains, please.

in the conclusion, they explicitly allow for the possibility that it may be proven that plants are conscious.

Do they? Please provide a quote, I’m not seeing anything like that in the conclusion.

Here’s the other thing: even if you are correct (which is not likely based on evidence), consuming plants instead of meat still reduces suffering. Eating plants directly is more efficient than eating animals that eat plants.

Check the study I linked. It defines consciousness and explains their experiments in detail. Get more specific if you can refute those findings.

Again: plants don’t have brains.

Maybe you are also a plant?

Yes. You initially disliked christianity because of bad representation, but now you’re on board with a genociding babykilling slave rape condoning god.

Bad move. I hope you get out safely. Supporting christianity is supporting abuse.

deleted by creator

The god described in the bible is abusive.

Omnipotence means he knew what would happen when he created humans, and he did it anyway. “Free will” is impossible if he knew what would happen, it’s just an excuse to guilt you into obedience. How does an omnipresent being leave the room long enough for unsupervised humans to listen to the talking snake he left with them, then act surprised when he comes back?

“Mankind is evil. I will flood the world. … There. I killed most of them, but they’re still evil. Oh well, lol, I’ll kill them different next time.”

I’m sorry you’ve fallen prey to a death cult. I hope you get out before hurting anybody.

either all plant matter and all animal matter are consious or they are all not.

Plants do not have brains or nervous systems, they are not conscious.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8052213/

I am aiming for a vegan lifestyle, but it is difficult to escape hidden milk and eggs in unexpected places. I hope everyone can agree that factory farming is needlessly cruel and should not be supported. I am happy with any steps taken to reduce suffering in the world. I think too many people view it as all-or-nothing, and they can’t do all so they do nothing. But every choice we make affects the world we share; any individual can make a difference, even a small one, and they add up.

Amazing. 🙂 Learning a new language can unlock so many options. Thank you, and good luck!

so what happens when the west regulates but China doesn’t?

We significantly reduce the damage we are doing to our planet.

Throughout history the nations with the best technology win. And I’d rather be on the winning side.

We need to stop competing and start cooperating. As humans on earth, we have shared goals and resources.

Yeah. I consider theism to be insane. From my perspective, society can’t make theism sane, but it does sanewash it, people pretend it’s sane. Which I think is insane.

I can also provide some definitions of “insane” that I think are applicable: very foolish, strange, irrational. Lacking the ability to think, mentally ill.

I don’t mean it to be a put-down or a diagnosis, just an observation. We can all be foolish sometimes, and we all benefit from correcting ourselves and each other.

I was making six figures doing web development for a bank. My life began to fall apart and I quit. I wish I could say it was an entirely morally motivated decision, but it was mostly me beginning to realize I was burned out. Still, I quit without hesitation and I don’t regret it. My boss said we had to come in to the office for tax purposes, basically. She called it “funny money.”

People are not pawns to be pushed across the board.

So I was also privileged. I’ve been coasting on savings since quitting, but the money is running low and the AI bubble has yet to burst. I may get a fast food job to survive for now, but my sights are set on ecological work. I want to give back to the planet and do more to build a better future instead of taking all I can get. I wish my whole life had gone differently. I wish I hadn’t fallen for the bait at all.

Thank you for sharing your experiences. We have much to learn.

They believed they saw Jesus risen.

How many firsthand accounts do we have? I found Paul’s in Acts and Corinthians, but Paul also seems to have spoken for James. Did James or anyone else record meeting Jesus after resurrection themselves? I would especially prefer to hear it from more consistent and verifiable historical sources than the bible. The gospels were written in 70-100 AD, long enough for rumors to grow into legends.

If someone is going to die in regards for something they saw, it’s likely true.

No. If someone is going to die for something they saw, it means they believed it. It doesn’t mean it’s true. I maintain that it is far more likely that A) they made it up B) they hallucinated or dreamed it C) they were tricked, or any other number of explanations before “dead man who claimed to be a death god returned from the dead to prove his resurrection, but only to people around at the time and then he disappeared forever.”

why would I give my life up for something that’s a lie?

What if you did not see what you think you saw? For example, it could have been some kind of criticism of Kim Jong Un, someone impersonating him and pretending to cheat. Or you saw him with his wife, but did not recognize her for any number of reasons. Maybe she was pretending to be someone else because they like it kinky.

Your willingness to die is only evidence that you were convinced, not that the thing you witnessed was true.

The apostles who gave their life up had nothing to gain.

They thought they would be rewarded in the afterlife. It is a death cult.

Therefore there is no other plausible explanation than that it really happened.

I have provided many plausible alternatives, and scholars have more. Jesus can’t be god because god can’t exist. The old testament contradicts itself and our reality with surprising frequency.

I have grown up surrounded by different denominations, I know my statement is factually correct.

For your area, maybe, but I suspect you were just ignoring the conflicts. Having grown up in southern baptist churches, I know my statement is factually correct, different denominations can and do fight over their interpretations of the bible.

Christ alone saves - which is what Christianity has generally taught in every denomination anyway, and work towards removing the distressing superstition of works-based salvation.

But that’s bullshit. People “accept Jesus” to get saved. Then what? Then they are expected to obey him completely. It immediately becomes all about works, sustaining an abusive relationship under threat of supernatural obliteration.

The evangelicals I knew were insistent that everyone should follow their particular denomination.

If you are going to provide an example of what I am saying is being wrong, you’re either going to provide an example of some war from three hundred years ago or an example of some dude in the middle of nowhere in one congregation with a whole flock of like 30 people being a sectarian douchebag saying he is the one true church.

So you’ve chosen to reject evidence in advance? Dishonest.

So no one is telling these catholics they’re going to hell? https://www.patheos.com/blogs/bluecollarapologetics/2024/05/all-catholics-are-going-to-hell-really/

The Orthodox Church is the true Church.

What does that make other churches?

https://www.pravmir.com/do-all-non-orthodox-people-go-to-hell/

But they know it’s bad PR to say others are going to hell, so they came up with this complete cop-out:

If anyone is saved, he must in some sense be a member of the Church; in what sense we cannot always say

“If they’re saved, they’re one of us… somehow.” Ridiculous.

Do you value individual experiences? How many Reddit posts do you think we can find where religious people are either condemning each other or venting about being condemned? How many points of data do you need to be convinced of a problem’s existence?

unless you’re counting sects which aren’t even Christian like Jehovah’s Witnesses or Mormons

There you go rejecting evidence again. Let’s check the Jehovah’s Witness website:

https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/

We are Christians who believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and our Savior.

And mormons?

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/?lang=eng

Common Questions

Are members of the church of jesus christ of latter-day saints christian?

Yes! As members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, we believe Jesus Christ is the Son of God and the Savior of the World.

I’m curious why you don’t consider them. If christ was here, we could ask him. Since he isn’t, anyone can claim christianity, and they have exactly as much evidential support for their beliefs as you do.

Your original quote was:

Denominations agree on 95% of things.

I asked for a citation, as I doubt the veracity of that arbitrary 95%. You said:

Find any Church that publishes a statement of faith

This is unhelpful, as we need a many-to-many comparison: many different denominations, and many different beliefs held by each.

Denominations are formed over random stuff, usually church structure.

This is ignoring a lot of violent history.

https://christianeducatorsacademy.com/the-ultimate-guide-to-christian-denominations-types-beliefs-and-differences/

During the Protestant Reformation in the 16th century, a number of denominations broke away from the Roman Catholic Church in response to what they saw as corruption and abuse of power within the Church. These Protestant groups believed in the primacy of individual interpretation of the Bible, as opposed to following the teachings of a central authority like the Pope.

Already we see three broad factions with fundamentally incompatible beliefs:

Catholics believe in the authority of the Pope and the sacraments

[Orthodox] believe in the authority of the Bible and the church’s teachings

[Protestants] believe in the authority of the Bible and emphasize the role of individual interpretation in spiritual matters.

Hmm, interesting. So what happens when individuals interpret the bible?

There are many denominations within Protestantism, such as Anglicanism, Baptism, Lutheranism, Methodism, and Pentecostalism.

We get even more division, because there is no standard and there never was.

How different are they? Quite. Does the trinity exist? Are we saved by faith, works, or both? Should we listen to a guy in a funny hat, a different guy in a funny hat, or whichever preacher is most convenient?

Are there divine consequences for choosing the wrong denomination? Depends on which denomination you ask.

They all claim to believe in christ, but they all have different interpretations of what that means, what his teachings meant, how to follow them, etc.

If you say this to me one more time I am going to donate £5 to a church’s evangelical outreach on your behalf.

“You accused me of supporting terrorism, so I’m going to fund terrorists because you’re annoying” is a concerning mindset for anyone to have.

I can rephrase it as a more polite request: Would you consider making choices that are less likely to result in the needless suffering and death of yourself, me, and everyone else alive today?

But I feel that undermines the urgency. Your casual denial of reality is harmful, deadly. We can’t measure your christ or your god. We can count the real bodies left in the wake of selfish believers.

Please think carefully.

Well, unless your base has been conditioned to accept whatever you say instead of paying attention to reality. Then you can completely contradict yourself and still get support, somehow.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/crlx8w5wdl0o

“When I win, I will immediately bring prices down, starting on day one.” Aug 2024

“They’re dying, Russians and Ukrainians. I want them to stop dying. And I’ll have that done - I’ll have that done in 24 hours.” May 2023

Thank you for caring. Too many people are willing to harm others for pay as long as they can distance themselves from the consequences.

Good point, though I want to highlight the oxymoron of “sane christian”. Sane people do not pretend magic is real. Sane people recognize that imaginary friends live only in our heads.

Too many people tolerate death cults, so we all get death. How do we hold people accountable who believe they will be eternally rewarded for taking away the rights of others? They have no sympathy for trans (or any non-christian) people, they see us as sinners who deserve whatever god decides we get. Then they vote to make it come true, since god rather suspiciously can’t ever do shit himself. They protect their baseless delusions while ignoring evidence, then they turn it around on us.

Being trans is not delusional, not a mental illness. It’s a natural response to social pressures and perceptions. We can observe that affirming gender and providing access to care saves lives.

Conversely, being christian is delusional, is a mental illness. Show me any evidence at all for the magic abuser in the sky. All they have is logical fallacies, specifically god of the gaps and special pleading. We cannot verify that any god exists, but on top of that unfounded claim they build their own perception of god and live their lives as if these insane assumptions are undeniable facts.

I hope the tide turns soon. I hope humanity comes to its senses before we all die.

Yeah, horrible thing to say. “We all know the shootings will never stop and adequate mental healthcare is a lie in this country, so I hope the victims help us normalize violence instead of going on and on about how they almost died on our campus.”

The United States was founded on it. Invade, colonize, slaughter, “this is our land now.” No one is above the law; well, the law written specifically to empower greedy white guys, the law that said a black person was worth less than one person and that women could not vote.

Manifest destiny was violent westward expansion motivated by greed and religious delusion.

Now bible-thumpers seek to make the US “great” again… for straight white landowners. Some christian women are unironically stating they would gladly give up their right to vote if it meant living in a less liberal country. Some christians are unironically citing the bible as justification for slavery and genocide.

Somehow, too many people have become conditioned to excuse a death cult that renamed the department of defense to the department of war, regularly protects pedophiles, and seeks to legislate entire portions of the population out of existence.

The vague mandate republicans keep talking about? They probably think it’s from god. Project 2025, the heritage foundation… It’s painfully obvious. But when all the supreme court judges are playing along, how do we repair our broken systems? What good are laws founded on nonsense? How do we stop the damage being done each day? There can be no accountability as long as grown adults who believe in magic hold influential positions.

“You’re so right to call us out. We’ll definitely avoid similar problems in the future. Every child should know all 50 of the Unootu Steves.”

Use sites like reddit. Don’t use sites like reddit. It doesn’t matter.

Yes, it matters.

Stop feeding the slop machine.

You gave up. That’s suicidally stupid of you. Try again while you still can.