I’ve recently gone down the rabbit hole of Jordan shit tonight and this combo of stats blew my mind.
He’s never been a point guard for an extended time. I know he played point guard at the end of a season and racked up 10 triple doubles out of 11 games. Out of his decently lengthy career he’s barely done it but… he still put up 11+ assists a game in a finals and only 2 other players in history have done this. Both point guards their whole careers(Cousey and Magic).
Then 2 finals later he sets the finals ppg record at 41 points.
Both of these have not been broken since those years 30-32 years ago.
Bonus: he set the playoff scoring total record in the playoffs in the year between those. That hasn’t been broken either
He won all 3 years to support the awesomeness even further
Dafuq was this dude on???
But Lebron has a long career… /s
MJ is the undisputed 🐐
The funny part is he averaged 11 assists in 1991 when he was facing Magic, where the 90s equivalent of NBA twitter would have said Magic is better because he’s more of a team player (Though I have to mention Magic averaged 12.4 assists in that Finals)
I’m happy that the stats back-up my experience watching MJ play. He was unbelievably great.
This has been said before but what’s so crazy about Jordan is you can take nearly any given player’s record, award history, statistical streak, or incredible stat line and there’s a really good chance one of the people competing with the player for that unique streak, award, etc. is going to be Jordan. Like there’s all these different players in various lists and then Jordan is just in all of them.
Same with LeBron
He’s either #1 or 2 in both career regular season AND playoffs WS/48, Box Plus Minus, and PER. He’s the only player in all 3 on both.
That’s absolutely wild. Like how does a player become that much better than everyone else?
Yes, Jordan is effectively #1 all time in those box score aggregated advanced metrics, on a per game basis. Every single one that can be applied to his era. He is the most statistically impactful player of all time.
What’s more impressive though was the rate at which he accumulated awards and accolades. LeBron has won 63 of them in his 20 year career. That’s a lot. In 11 full seasons with the Bulls, Jordan racked up 68. He won more awards than even LeBron James, in nearly half the time. That’s just insane.Like Wayne Gretzky
The key is to get your ass handed to you by the Pistons. Look what it did for both Shaq and Kobe.
The key is to get your ass handed to you by the pistons. Look what it did for both Shaq and Kobe.
It’s even more crazy he did it at that time.
The league talent might be better today, but coaching/health and recovery/accommodations in terms of flights/hotels/etc(and yes shit accommodations would lead to more fatigue, especially back in the 60s), and most importantly the rules all were far less favourable back then.
People talk about zone defense a lot because Jordan himself said it would have hindered him, but a lot of the rule changes and changes to the way the game is called(dont call travelling/carrying violations, footwork violations, moving screens) would have all allowed him to be even more dominant offensively.
To me is that despite Jordan playing at a time where people didn’t really know about playing efficient basketball, or rather it wasn’t widespread, Jordan was still incredibly efficient and his advantage metrics are still at the top. Pull up any modern advanced stat and who’s at the top or near the top? Jordan.
Goat
This bum played against literal milkmen and expansion teams that were forced to play with only 4 players in moments, like an inverse hockey power play. NEXT!!!
Nobody understanding your sarcasm is baffling. I swear Reddit goes to the bergers and artists more and more every damn day.
It’s actually possible to both realize it was sarcasm and still think it was dumb…
Not for most Redditors
MJ and Chuck Norris just be on some other ish
Someday there will be a player that legitimately challenges MJ in the goat debate, and I just hope I’m around to see him play when that happens.
At worst LeBron is a legitimate challenger for GOAT, even if you don’t think he ultimately makes the cut.
No.
I honestly don’t know if that ever happens. I mean, there will probably be a few more “Lebrons” that come along (maybe Wemby ends one of them) that some people will argue is the GOAT, but even as great as Lebron was, he’s not really close when you consider that recency bias is HEAVILY in Lebron’s favor. Let me put it this way. If Lebron played in the 90s and MJ was here today and had his career that he did…there would be zero discussion. Everyone would call MJ the GOAT and people would be arguing Lebron/Wilt/Russell/Kareem/Magic, etc….as very distant possible #2s.
Even when you get past all the stats and accolades…you got the swagger, the trash talking, the LOOK, the air ballet, the SHOES, the NICKNAME, the global presence, the commercials, BE LIKE MIKE, the dunk championships…I mean…that’s like icing on top of icing on top of icing on top of the already GOAT cake.
I have argued that MJ is the Gretzky of basketball in that he’s THAT far from everyone else. Maybe not in pure stats like Gretzky but when you factor in all the other things…it DEFINES greatness.
Eh, it’s unfair to say LeBron didn’t even challenge him in the debate - and I come down firmly on the side of Jordan being #1.
Had LeBron been born in a good family like Steph he would have been the GOAT easily. That brother became a GOAT contender off pure talent with no one even teaching how to shoot a jumper. Can’t learn that later in your life. Ambidextrous, perfect body and incredible vision but struggles to shoot a FT because he didn’t have the privilege to learn fundamentals like Steph.
MJ had great family support as well. Wemby has the perfect body if you ignore injury risk and great fundamentals from a basketball family. LeBron James had the worst conditions with many flaws and is still close so I believe we haven’t seen the GOAT yet. I haven’t seen a flawless basketball player yet. A small guy like Steph coming near the top shows me there’s still a lot of inefficiency at the top. Jordan is the closest thing to a flawless player I know but he is still a little too small and inefficient from deep to be the permanent GOAT in basketball imo. In football I feel I have seen the perfect player with perfect physical, technical abilities, IQ, vision in Messi.
If my grandmother had wheels she would’ve been a bike
That’s just crazy bruh, LeBron or MJ is the goat, I have no problem if anyone has either of them #1, to say LeBron doesn’t even challenge is crazy.
You don’t think Lebron has an argument against Jordan? I think it’s debatable right now at the very least.
I put Jordan ahead (flair, duh), but I think there is a debate. Lebron’s longevity at such a high level is beyond belief, but Jordan’s insane competitiveness puts him above for me.
LeBron is just as competitive, just a stupid argument. The reason Jordan is the GOAT is his privileged upbringing compared to LeBron. LeBron had no one to teach him how to shoot and other basics at a young age. If LeBron’s name was LeBron Curry born to Dell Curry he would have been the GOAT. Jordan is just way better technically than LeBron
MJs dad was a mechanic and his family had a basic middle class background. What are you talking about? lol Also there was significantly more programs to develop young basketball talent by the time LeBron was coming up.
He can be argued but at the end of the argument it’s still solidly jordan.
Lebron is the solid #2 though.
VICTOR WEMBENYAMA
I think LBJ is probably the closest anyone will come
It’s baffling that there are still people who refuse to admit he’s GOAT
I personally have lebron as the better nba career, (8 consecutive finals appearances, 10 total), all time scoring title, and having won a ring with three teams, beating the most winning team of all time in a reverse sweep. But who can top going 6-0 in the finals in 2 threepeats? That’s absurd, but more concentrated within a career standpoint. Jordan had some playoff troubles in his early career (first finals appearance after 7 years) that lebron didn’t struggle with so much (first finals in year 4). But I agree that Jordan’s peak is the unrivaled goat basketball player
I thought it was cool as fuck he took a break between the finals to play baseball, like bro was bigger than it all and was in a coma between finals.
LeMickey is the undisputed goat at losing in finals though, MJ could never
There’s always another mindblowing MJ stat.
Michael Jordan is good.
But people gave LeBron a hard time for passing too much, smh…
If you didn’t get to tune in live when you felt the tension and saw MJ shrug it off as he made high degree of difficulty shot after shot look effortless all while the other team the refs the crowd and the millions watching all knew MJ was gonna be the go-to then you just missed how great a player this man was