Listen to this episode from The Bill Simmons Podcast on Spotify. The Ringer's Bill Simmons is joined by Cousin Sal to discuss the Eagles' win over the Dolphins, Rams-Steelers, the Ravens trouncing the Lions, Colts-Browns, the Patriots' shocking upset win over the Bills, Chiefs-Chargers, Raiders-Bears, and more (2:08), before guessing the lines for NFL Week 8 (51:29), and closing the show with Parent Corner (1:23:09).Host: Bill SimmonsGuest: Cousin SalProducer: Kye CrichtonThe Ringer is committed to responsible gaming, please checkout theringer.com/RG to find out more or listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Thats very true of his Jazz seasons but to be fair to him he was a lot better in Cleveland. He still wasn’t good and the effort wasn’t always there but he was a lot more engaged and mostly executed the scheme and tried some to get over screens. He is not in the Trae/Kyrie/Dame tier of small guard, his length lets him be pretty good when he wants to be.
He is a funny player. His entire draft profile + early summer league profile was great defender right away but might not be able to score. Yet in the league hes been the exact opposite.
Also while wingspan in theory helps more with defense, I’d argue height is more important on offense as it allows you to see over opponents to make the right reads.
I don’t think “seeing over opponents” helps when it literally only applies to jokic. Every other great passer has been perfectly able to read defenses without seeing over them. Even LeBron isn’t “see over opponents” tall. Cp3, Stockton, Nash, rondo, wall, Westbrook all did just fine despite being the smallest guy in most lineups
LeBron is still taller than the average NBA player, and more to the point if he is being blitzed off a pick and roll, there is usually bound to be one short defender.
The point guards you listed are exceptional passers (first three have a claim to top 10 pg all time lists), and I’d argue Westbrook at 6’6" would have a better assist/turnover ratio than what he does now.
I don’t think Mitchell is a natural passer and that combined with his short stature limits his ability in this area. I think a good comp for Mitchell (in terms of passing ability) would be Kawhi. If Kawhi was closer to 6’ rather than his listed 6’7", I think his assists/to would be similar to Mitchell.
For sure, it that’s an effort/technique issue, not a size one. Mitchell isn’t actually that small for a 2 defensively, he’s long and strong for his height. He’s just a bad defensive player.
I also don’t think it does him any favors to be paired with guys like Garland and Old Mike Conley who have equally big defensive issues. Put him with a 3&D guard like KCP who can always take the more difficult backcourt assignment and Mitchell’s lackluster D isn’t costing the Nuggets the title any more than Murray’s did.
I have ways thought height was such an odd way to measure a player. like a dude with a freakishly long neck might be 3 inches taller on paper. The league needs to switch away from height and instead go off standing reach and wingspan.
I think Ben is cooked. And I don’t mean that in a circle jerky way, I think the back injuries have had a serious effect on his athleticism. There was a time when he was the best perimeter defender in the league. He’s not close to that anymore.
Can they afford Mitchell and resign Claxton without moving Simmons? Genuinely asking as I don’t really understand how the cap works and how much it’ll increase after this season.
Now that you say this it honestly would seem like a high chance he comes to us. We are desperately going to need a PG if that’s the case though. Dinwiddie is alright as a passer and an above avg scorer but as a total package just comes out to meh.
Totally forgot Simmons is PG on offense and PF on defense. We would need to upgrade still somewhere to be a contender and would prob lose Ben in the process unless he plays like a Max guy again. But I am absolutely here for the
Ben
Mitchell
Bridges
Cam Johnson
Claxton
Lineup on offense and the
Mitchell
Bridges
Cam
Simmons
Clax
Lineup on defense. That sounds like a lot of fun and Mitchell just needs to get buckets around a bunch of talented tall dudes
Random idea: Simmons to the hawks for dejounte Murray. Brooklyn gets a pg who can score, Atlanta gets a perimeter defender to pair with trae. Nets probably have to throw in a pick or 2 but it seems like it could help both teams.
Plus Ben can overcome his fear by dunking on trae in practice.
Lukewarm take: I’d rather have Ben than DJM on the Nets rn. I don’t think he’s that good lol and the guys like Ben, seems like an unnecessary shakeup for a lateral move
The Cavs had the #1 defense last year, so their defense could not have been more fine with two undersized guards. There’s no #0 defense they could have been. It wasn’t a problem.
wake up… they were #1 in defense because they’re young and still actually try in the regular season, and because they play two defensive bigs - which creates other problems.
Really bad matchup and the Cavs didn’t have the depth to play in a different way. Hoping now that we’ve added more talented players and Mobley has had more time, we see new ways to play the game. I think our offense was the even bigger problem in that series.
Also JB is a terrible coach. He was awful when he replaced McHale on the Rockets (yes it was a bad situation to be thrown into but he didn’t get close to what a good coach would’ve out of them that year).
He’s definitely in the hot seat. He has shown he can take a bad team to being a good team but hasn’t shown he can make a good team a great team. The signs are gonna be there pretty quick to tell us if the Cavs have grown as a team. Even if the team starts the season strong, we’ll be able to see if he’s coached the team to be more versatile and dynamic.
The fact people are still trying to use the “defense argument” against Donovan in potential lineup situations after the season we just saw Cleveland have last year is ridiculous and shows how much ball people here actually watch
It doesn’t matter till the playoffs for a lot of people and I hate that mentality. Yes the playoffs are more important but the defense wasn’t even the big problem in the Knicks series. The big problem was our stagnant offense and lack of annnnny scoring
I’ll be honest tho, idk how him and Brunson works as a backcourt.
Rumor is the sixers are trying to get him as well and I feel the same way about a Mitchell/Maxey backcourt. Defense would be so bad
Agree. Mitchell is for sure better than Brunson, but not by miles, and they kind of occupy the same space.
For the Knicks maybe you just grab the asset and figure it out later, but agree the fit is suspect.
Nobody wants to hear this but Donovan will always be a flawed player as an undersized 2.
Well ya, being a 6’1 shooting guard is not ideal.
I’d rather be a 6’1" shooting guard with a 6’9" wingspan like Mitchell instead of a 6’4" shooting guard with a 6’3" wingspan like Desmond Bane.
Except Mitchell doesn’t use his wingspan for defense, at all
Thats very true of his Jazz seasons but to be fair to him he was a lot better in Cleveland. He still wasn’t good and the effort wasn’t always there but he was a lot more engaged and mostly executed the scheme and tried some to get over screens. He is not in the Trae/Kyrie/Dame tier of small guard, his length lets him be pretty good when he wants to be.
He is a funny player. His entire draft profile + early summer league profile was great defender right away but might not be able to score. Yet in the league hes been the exact opposite.
Also while wingspan in theory helps more with defense, I’d argue height is more important on offense as it allows you to see over opponents to make the right reads.
I don’t think “seeing over opponents” helps when it literally only applies to jokic. Every other great passer has been perfectly able to read defenses without seeing over them. Even LeBron isn’t “see over opponents” tall. Cp3, Stockton, Nash, rondo, wall, Westbrook all did just fine despite being the smallest guy in most lineups
LeBron is still taller than the average NBA player, and more to the point if he is being blitzed off a pick and roll, there is usually bound to be one short defender.
The point guards you listed are exceptional passers (first three have a claim to top 10 pg all time lists), and I’d argue Westbrook at 6’6" would have a better assist/turnover ratio than what he does now.
I don’t think Mitchell is a natural passer and that combined with his short stature limits his ability in this area. I think a good comp for Mitchell (in terms of passing ability) would be Kawhi. If Kawhi was closer to 6’ rather than his listed 6’7", I think his assists/to would be similar to Mitchell.
For sure, it that’s an effort/technique issue, not a size one. Mitchell isn’t actually that small for a 2 defensively, he’s long and strong for his height. He’s just a bad defensive player.
I also don’t think it does him any favors to be paired with guys like Garland and Old Mike Conley who have equally big defensive issues. Put him with a 3&D guard like KCP who can always take the more difficult backcourt assignment and Mitchell’s lackluster D isn’t costing the Nuggets the title any more than Murray’s did.
Murray’s defense helped them win vs the Lakers and the Heat.
I have ways thought height was such an odd way to measure a player. like a dude with a freakishly long neck might be 3 inches taller on paper. The league needs to switch away from height and instead go off standing reach and wingspan.
I mean i’m pretty sure thats what scouts use. Fans and casuals on the other hand.
Bane is 6’5 with a 6’4 wingspan
wow that changes everything. in shoes or barefoot?
wingspan is 7’2 in shoes, 7’6 if he borrows kd’s
10’ if he holds a couple frying pans
Wonder how Mitchell would fit next to Bridges instead
I’ve always wanted to see Mitchell and ben Simmons on the same team, they seem like the perfect compliments to each other .
Much better, that’s actually a great pairing
It could work. Ben at the 1 fixes a lot of defensive issues
I think Ben is cooked. And I don’t mean that in a circle jerky way, I think the back injuries have had a serious effect on his athleticism. There was a time when he was the best perimeter defender in the league. He’s not close to that anymore.
His movement through pre season seemed to suggest otherwise. He might not be a 15/8/8 guy anymore. But if he’s moving well his efence should come back
There was a season when be averaged more than 10pts a game? I had no idea
Don’t expose yourself nephew
Ben -Donovan-Bridges is a crazy good group. Plus their stretch fours and Claxton
Can they afford Mitchell and resign Claxton without moving Simmons? Genuinely asking as I don’t really understand how the cap works and how much it’ll increase after this season.
Now that you say this it honestly would seem like a high chance he comes to us. We are desperately going to need a PG if that’s the case though. Dinwiddie is alright as a passer and an above avg scorer but as a total package just comes out to meh.
Totally forgot Simmons is PG on offense and PF on defense. We would need to upgrade still somewhere to be a contender and would prob lose Ben in the process unless he plays like a Max guy again. But I am absolutely here for the
Ben Mitchell Bridges Cam Johnson Claxton
Lineup on offense and the
Mitchell Bridges Cam Simmons Clax
Lineup on defense. That sounds like a lot of fun and Mitchell just needs to get buckets around a bunch of talented tall dudes
Random idea: Simmons to the hawks for dejounte Murray. Brooklyn gets a pg who can score, Atlanta gets a perimeter defender to pair with trae. Nets probably have to throw in a pick or 2 but it seems like it could help both teams.
Plus Ben can overcome his fear by dunking on trae in practice.
Lukewarm take: I’d rather have Ben than DJM on the Nets rn. I don’t think he’s that good lol and the guys like Ben, seems like an unnecessary shakeup for a lateral move
It’s basically the same issue as in Cleveland, two small, ball dominant guards that have issues defensively
The Cavs had the #1 defense last year, so their defense could not have been more fine with two undersized guards. There’s no #0 defense they could have been. It wasn’t a problem.
Ehh it’s because Evan Mobley erases all of their mistake and Allen is right there after him. So unless a team has guys like that it could get rough
They are not good perimeter defenders at all
wake up… they were #1 in defense because they’re young and still actually try in the regular season, and because they play two defensive bigs - which creates other problems.
Except for when they lost in 5 games to a team they had no size against.
And defense really wasn’t the issue. They just couldn’t score.
you could sub out Mitchell for a Tsar Bomba, still would have paled in comparison to the destruction enacted by Mitchell Robinson on Jarrett Allen
They lost cause they just couldn’t score enough.
Team couldnt make 3s and Mitchell was bad
Really bad matchup and the Cavs didn’t have the depth to play in a different way. Hoping now that we’ve added more talented players and Mobley has had more time, we see new ways to play the game. I think our offense was the even bigger problem in that series.
Also JB is a terrible coach. He was awful when he replaced McHale on the Rockets (yes it was a bad situation to be thrown into but he didn’t get close to what a good coach would’ve out of them that year).
He is a good assistant tho!
He’s definitely in the hot seat. He has shown he can take a bad team to being a good team but hasn’t shown he can make a good team a great team. The signs are gonna be there pretty quick to tell us if the Cavs have grown as a team. Even if the team starts the season strong, we’ll be able to see if he’s coached the team to be more versatile and dynamic.
He’s done a good job with the current young team. But in the playoffs thibs had him completely schemed for by game 3. it was hard to watch
he’s a nepo baby bum. Listen to us.
I’m not even saying you’re wrong, just that he’s been good for player development
The fact people are still trying to use the “defense argument” against Donovan in potential lineup situations after the season we just saw Cleveland have last year is ridiculous and shows how much ball people here actually watch
It doesn’t matter till the playoffs for a lot of people and I hate that mentality. Yes the playoffs are more important but the defense wasn’t even the big problem in the Knicks series. The big problem was our stagnant offense and lack of annnnny scoring