cross-posted from: https://programming.dev/post/1797629

Some communities there are literally calling for the annihilation of Ukraine

https://programming.dev/comment/1999097

edit: Since people are either willfully or otherwose are missing my point, this is a pro-russia, pro-fascist hate group, therefore we shouldn’t give them the platform to spread their shit. this is not about me seeing their community or then causing issues accross other communities, it’s about de-platforming fascists.

The link for the original doesn’t seem to work. I assume there’s some missing context here. Still funny that they’re calling hexbear pro-Russia and fascist. The comment isn’t even by a hexbear. It’s by one of ours.

  • CriticalResist8@lemmygrad.ml
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    1 year ago

    I don’t know what’s worse in that thread, the person who thinks we’re fascists because we support Russia, or the person who thinks Russia is moving back towards communism (socialism)

    • Star Wars Enjoyer @lemmygrad.ml
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      1 year ago

      To be fair, those have been somewhat common liberal takes regarding the war.

      They think any use of “authoritarianism” is inherently Fascist, so the USSR and its supporters are Fascists. And if Russia is, supposedly, returning to being an authoritarian regime and expanding its borders, it must be returning to the USSR.

      it’s such an uneducated take, and makes me furious at our schooling systems.

      • Shrike502@lemmygrad.ml
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        1 year ago

        You’d think it was just western schooling, but nope. I’ve heard the whole “Putin is building USSR 2.0” from people in Russia. From adult people. Adult people who had actually lived in USSR. In a negative key. Yeah

        • JucheBot1988@lemmygrad.ml
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          1 year ago

          I’ve heard the whole “Putin is building USSR 2.0” from people in Russia.

          I would love to live in the world that libs think they inhabit.

        • misterslime12@lemmygrad.ml
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          1 year ago

          TBF they could be referring to the fact that the Ukrainian conflict is slowly but actively weakening imperialism globally, which lays the groundwork for the USSR’s return. They probably don’t mean this when they say Putin’s building USSR 2.0—why would they say Putin is doing it—but I like to be optimistic.

          • Shrike502@lemmygrad.ml
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            1 year ago

            TBF they could be referring to the fact that the Ukrainian conflict is slowly but actively weakening imperialism globally, which lays the groundwork for the USSR’s return

            I like your optimism. No. That’s not even close to what is usually meant.

          • The_Filthy_Commie@lemmygrad.ml
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            1 year ago

            I think it would be funny if Russia, under Putin or someone else, just stumbled into USSR 2.0. That they get there not because they meant to, but because they started to adopt some of the practical things China’s doing with development and the economy, and they one day find themselves back in the USSR.

            It would certainly be a historic coinkydink.

    • Catradora-Stalinism☭@lemmygrad.ml
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      1 year ago

      idk feels like the same “government not the people” thing we decry libs for. I know you actually mean what you mean, but that kind of description isn’t fitting to our goals and libs will jump to take it out of context.

      • rjs001@lemmygrad.ml
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        1 year ago

        I was joking when I used that terminology because of that but rather I just wanted to specify that I don’t want Ukrainian genocide. Quite frankly, I don’t think we should have to worry about being taken out of context inside of leftists spaces. No one within Hexbear or Lemmygrad expressed any issue with my comment on its own. Maybe it’s not the best thing to say but I was (and still am) angry about people defending Ukraine and Zelensky. You are right that I should be more specific about what I mean. I don’t think I was wrong in what I said on its own but I don’t want to cause Hexbear any problems

        • RedClouds@lemmygrad.ml
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          1 year ago

          You aren’t causing hexbears any problems, smooth brain libs are looking for a reason to cry to their admins. You got caught in the fire. If they don’t defederate it will be some other fake contravorsey they’ll come up with next week.

          Though it is tough to know when someone is targeting people, or governments. I guess I always lean on longer posts myself. Just in case.

          • o_d [he/him]@lemmygrad.mlOP
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            1 year ago

            This was my take as well. If this was in one of the programming communities then I can see the need to ensure that we word our comments in a way in which they cannot be taken out of context. But this was on hexbear which is a safe space for us to talk without having to worry about that.

        • invalidusernamelol@lemmygrad.ml
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          1 year ago

          As a long time hexbear user, you’re causing no issues. Our resident anarchist (as in one of the more active ones) just got us to defederate from blahaj because their 196 comm has a “Fuck Tankies” banner and they hopped in and dragged the mod there about it until the mod threw a temper tantrum and removed their comments.

          What you said is pretty tame compared to usual posting there lol

          See here for some good Hexbear left unity

  • Trudge [Comrade]@lemmygrad.ml
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    1 year ago

    Do chuds really think that we love liberal Russia that was built on top of the corpse of the Soviet Union? Built by the Chicago School and cooperative robber-barons?

    We keep repeating that we hate Nazis and western imperialism, and this is something we have been collectively saying for close to a hundred years. They still don’t get it.

    • JucheBot1988@lemmygrad.ml
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      1 year ago

      Like the old r/genzedong meme had it –

      Lib says “I don’t like post-Soviet Russia.” Communist says: “Oh yeah? Then why the hell did you ask for it?”

  • Star Wars Enjoyer @lemmygrad.ml
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    classic liberal “It doesn’t comprise the views provided to me by my preferred propaganda source, therefore it must be the opposite of what I see myself being, and is thus Fascism” take there.

    And if they cared to read the thread, comrades explained positions and provided sources. They’d’ve seen that Ukraine is a Fascist state, and to defend it is ultimately a pro-Fascist stance.

    edit:: I went and read the thread from the programing.dev post, and my god i haven’t seen horseshoe theory that strong in a very long time. Seems like people over there think anyone who isn’t them is a Fascist.

    • seitanic@lemmy.sdf.org
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      1 year ago

      So, those people over there are so dumb, they label anybody who disagrees with them a fascist. Also, Ukraine is fascist. Did I get that right?

        • seitanic@lemmy.sdf.org
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          This was the same argument used for the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan, and I was against those, too. I’m against invasions, full stop. “There are bad people running and/or being harbored in this country, so we should go over there and kill them.” Even if the premise is true, I don’t think that’s a morally defensible position. It’s wrong when the United States does it, and it’s wrong when Russia does it.

          Also, impressive as Russia’s military is, I don’t think they have the ability to make sure that they only kill Nazis.

          • Black AOC@lemmygrad.ml
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            1 year ago

            lmao not a single punkassed lib who’s ever said “neither Washington nor Beijing Moscow” has ever meant it as anything more than an easily-reachable line, easy yellow-journalist spin, to slander non-Amerikan interests while protecting the Amerikan; do you really expect anyone here to believe you’re being sincere about it

              • Black AOC@lemmygrad.ml
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                1 year ago

                debate pervert

                I’m not even gonna bother; considering punkasses like you don’t read links even when they come from your own ‘trusted mainstream media sources’. You can pay me for the time you intend to waste, however, at paypal.me/eatmyentiredick for even thinking about asking me to refute your historically horseshit Time Magazine spin-doctored tripe! We don’t humor right-wing-adjacent 'bate pests in the year of our Miku 2023.

          • postmeridiem@lemmy.antemeridiem.xyz
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            1 year ago

            We were just talking about who is or isn’t fascist, not the justifications for the war, but I’ll answer both. A significant portion of the west no longer really has elections, it has a two sided vote between “democracy” and fascism. Even by the standards of liberal democracy, can you even call it a democracy at that point? It sounds more like a regularly held fascism referendum. So when people call Russia fascist from these countries it just doesn’t really strike a chord with me. Their favorite Russian leader, Boris Yeltsin, set up the structure of the RF while bombing parliament and they don’t call him a fascist. It’s just opportunistic propagandizing.

            As for the Russian reasons of the war, I would imagine Russia is concerned about the mostly defensive military alliance built to dismantle them getting ever closer to them, and what happens when said alliance decide to not be so defensive for the fifth time in the last 20 years.

          • darkcalling@lemmygrad.ml
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            1 year ago

            I’m not going to attempt to explain the larger historical context but believe me there is one here and it goes back 80 years (US meddling in Ukraine goes back 70 years by contrast, supporting fascist movements against the USSR in Ukraine).

            You start from a false premise. That Russia attacked Ukraine in a vacuum, that they were just peacefully minding their own business when suddenly a horde of barbarians came over in a frenzied rage over their prosperous society which they wanted to seize for their own benefits.

            The current issues started really in 2004, the orange color revolution by the US, it alarmed Russia but they were still pretty weak and fragmented, Yeltsin was compromised by the CIA and had given away much in the 90s. So Russia did nothing but sit by and continue waving at NATO asking if maybe they could join or if they could become part of an economic bloc with Europe or otherwise join the western order as a big-seat, respected (not junior) partner.

            Fast forward to 2014, Maidan, a fascist coup takes place in Ukraine, people are murdered by fascist groups, bad things happen, this is a US backed color revolution of sorts as well. Russia moves to annex Crimea as the fascists are viciously anti-Russian, pro-Nazi collaborators like Bandera/OUN and Crimea has historically been Russian and was only granted to Ukraine under the USSR in the 50s. Crimean citizens support this for the most part (guess what, no independence movement has complete support, there were many in the US at its founding who were loyal to Britain and didn’t want to leave that family). Ukraine complains but can’t do anything about it other than a few isolated terrorist attacks on infrastructure and cutting off water. Tensions flare in the east of Ukraine, in parts of the country that predominantly speak Russian, are Russian culturally and when looking at things like voting patterns, language, etc stand out brightly on maps as clearly delineated and having strong differences from western parts of Ukraine. They do not like new restrictions on their languages (Russian), their culture, etc. Fighting breaks out, fascist paramilitaries start attacking these areas. The residents fight back, they manage to push them out of many areas, a civil war in essence breaks out. Over the following years Ukraine, including fascist paramilitaries that are either part of the armed forces or are soon integrated shell those regions indiscriminately, killing civilians.

            Russia tries not once, but twice to arrange with the west peace guarantees called the Minsk agreements, round 1 fails, they come back once it’s fallen through for round 2 and hope the Ukrainians abide by it, respect the Russian people there, their culture, stop the violence and bloodshed, maintain neutrality towards Russia as agreed to in the agreements. Fast forward to 2021, Ukraine has been visibly arming up, the US has been sending them weapons, they are building their armed forces, there are US senators visiting Nazi regiments there and telling them the US stands with them and will support them. 2022, the special operation launches in response to a Ukrainian troop-build-up pointed towards the east which Russia judges to be part of a push to take over the break-away Russian regions by force and give them to the authority of the Nazi battalions among others while suppressing their language, culture, etc. In other words to commit atrocities against Russian peoples. Russia intervenes for humanitarian reasons begrudgingly (if they were war-mongers or wanted land they could have jumped at the opportunity in 2014 to take all of eastern Ukraine). They make a push for Kiev, try to pressure them into talks, Boris Johnson personally goes to Ukraine to stop such talks and continue Ukrainians being fed into the meat grinder.

            This is like a neighbor who has been punching you, throwing rocks through your windows for years and suddenly you hit them back and they spin it as you starting a war against them. Many people have had siblings who liked doing this and just as some of them have the favor of their parents, the US’s line here has the favor of those who listen to its media.

            No war was started by Russia in 2022, they merely brought into the open and responded with force to a war that had been raging for years after years of failed, dishonest peace attempts with the west and Ukrainians (Angela Merkel and the French president both admit that Minsk was a ruse from the start to give a chance for Ukraine to build a military, they never intended for them to honor it, it was a deception of the Russians).

            Sources? I’m not going to compile any for you because I doubt you are good faith and frankly my sources are a mess that I should organize one of these days but haven’t yet on this subject. With some searching determination you can find all this info yourself if you so desire to challenge your beliefs.

  • Valbrandur@lemmygrad.ml
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    1 year ago

    If they start answering “How do I control an ESCPOS receipt printer through Javascript?” with “Nuke Kyiv”, then maybe do so [defederate].

    New response just dropped.

  • Munrock ☭@lemmygrad.ml
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    1 year ago

    There’s a lot to be said in favour of federation, and the innate us-them mentality that comes with the federate-defederate border control is a thing. It looks and seems like a downside, but it’s far and away better than the centralized lib authority we had in places like reddit.

    Just sharing a thought that reading this thread prompted.

    • o_d [he/him]@lemmygrad.mlOP
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      1 year ago

      It’s just sad that many of the instance owners (world, beehaw, shitjustworks) are just as reactionary as the capital owners at the head of Reddit.

  • Justice@lemmygrad.ml
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    1 year ago

    “It’s by one of ours.”

    Proud of us. Good job, guys. Keep up the good work. Alright, time for some pancakes. Hexbear is invited despite allegations of stolen posting valor.