As far as I see that instance is a far-right cess pool. Everything I’ve got from that instance were low-quality transphobic “news articles”.
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And then it’s usually the most low-IQ people you’ve ever seen. So even if you are a person with controversial opinions and would like to discuss them, you can’t even do that properly.
E.g. imagine that you like cryptocoins, but see some kind of problem with them that you would like to argue about… Everything you get is an angry Mob with nonsense responses.
Nazis aren’t welcome here, best they learn that now rather than through a long process of being told by everyone else here to fuck off.
What’s your definition of a Nazi? A member of a national socialist party? I want to understand what is being banned before it’s banned.
My criteria for what makes “a Nazi” are something like this.
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A belief that race is an immutable genetic concept, that reproducing outside one’s race is inherently wrong, and that some races are inherently superior to others; most often the superior groups are “white”, while the “inferior” groups include Africans, Jews and travelling people
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Reverence for cultural “tradition”, real or imagined, with any departure from these traditions classified as “degenerate” and dangerous to society. For example, a belief that avant-garde art is immoral and without value because it doesn’t root itself in what are popularly perceived to be the artistic traditions of “the west”, a neat line from Greek marble statues to Wagner.
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Hatred of diversity, seeing it as a plague that rots a society. For example, the belief that women are unfit to hold a social position outside of motherhood, that non-heterosexual sexualities are “degenerate”, that allowing people from another race to exist in your race’s society inevitably leads to that society’s destruction, that gender as a concept is a “mental illness” because only two biological sexes exist and each biological sex has a set-in-stone role demanding a certain presentation and certain values, that societies which follow one religion must not allow followers of another religion to exist within it.
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Heavy use of absolutism. Everything is either wholly good or wholly bad. Nothing can be a mix of good and bad, or neutral. And everything is a matter of utmost urgency. Anything that is “bad” is an existential threat to all that is “good” and must be immediately and utterly annihilated.
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An authoritarian outlook. Anything opposed by a Nazi must be forbidden by the full force of the law. There is no space for differences of opinion, or a nuanced debate, or reviewing the facts. If they oppose something, whether it’s big or small - the use of marijuana, reformative justice programs, abortion, media with female protagonists - it must be banned under pain of death.
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Violence. To a Nazi, the use of violence isn’t an escalation, but the norm. They have no qualms about beating people to death simply for espousing an opposing view, or even just for existing if some aspect of their existence offends their beliefs. Likewise, their rhetoric often alludes to the indiscriminate or nonchalant, even gleeful use of deadly force - “physical removal”, “showers”, etc.
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Shameless hypocrisy. The people who say “facts not feelings” as a rebuttal are often the same people whose beliefs are motivated almost entirely by feelings, and will happily mock others for trying to use evidence in their arguments instead of simply saying “it’s common sense”. They will shame someone for being rude and aggressive while also calling them the N word and telling them that on “the day of the rope”, they’ll be among the dead.
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Veneration of strong leaders and mocking of “weakness”. Consensus-builders are seen as spineless “cucks”, while people who enforce their every arbitrary whim with total force are held up as “based” exemplars of good leadership and models to be emulated. People who are comfortably being themselves in ways that aren’t conventionally masculine are addressed with slurs and told to kill themselves while ignorant, bullying asshats are applauded for “rustling jimmies”.
You can meet all of these criteria without being a member of a National-Socialist party, or even identifying as a Nazi, but if you do meet most or all of them, your ideology can be pretty confidently described as Nazi-like.
By the way, cheers to you for actually answering the question. I’ve seen “BAN NAZIS” before, but I haven’t really understood what the requestors are looking to ban, and when questioned they seem to disappear quickly.
This seems pretty well thought out.
I’m a little confused by: “A belief that race is an immutable genetic concept”. If I was born in Spain and my whole family has lived there for centuries, am I not Spanish / a Spaniard?
I’d agree that saying things like “all Spaniards are terrible at math” is racist, but I don’t see how one’s race is mutable in this fashion.
I’m a little confused by: “A belief that race is an immutable genetic concept”. If I was born in Spain and my whole family has lived there for centuries, am I not Spanish / a Spaniard?
Spanish would be a good description of your ethnic background in that situation, but there are quite a number of ethnic identities within Spain as well - the Basque, Galicians and Catalans, just to name a few. “Spanish” isn’t a racial monolith. There would be plenty of people whose ethnic background looks quite different to yours but who are no less Spanish.
What I mean in that statement is that Nazis believe that “race” - as in “Germanic”, “Hispanic”, “Black” (they tend to lump all sub-Saharan Africans together), “Middle Eastern” - is a useful way of classifying people, and that substantial differences in things like intelligence and physiology between humans are primarily the result of these categorisations.
Spanish would be a good description of your ethnic background in that situation, but there are quite a number of ethnic identities within Spain as well - the Basque, Galicians and Catalans, just to name a few. “Spanish” isn’t a racial monolith. There would be plenty of people whose ethnic background looks quite different to yours but who are no less Spanish.
But none of that is mutable, is it?
Your DNA isn’t going to change, but those ethnic groups are transient things rather than an inherent feature of reality. An ethnic group is ultimately a relative thing. Some “African-American” people might be genetically closer to the African people from whom their ancestors came than the other ethnic groups living in America, but they’re not simply “African” - they are a separate diaspora. Those ethnic groups change their makeups over time.
It’s not like, say, elements. 1,000 years from now, the average genetic makeup of any given ethnic group will be observably different from how it is today, but a Hydrogen atom will still be defined in exactly the same way as now. Nazis believe that races are a concrete, reified structure that doesn’t shift over time - it is a “pure” and “natural” state that becomes degraded and diluted by what they term miscegenation, rather than a fuzzy construct that changes over time.
Let’s say you were born in Spain and your whole family has lived there for centuries, but your family are black - say, some of your ancestors arrived from North Africa long ago. I would still call you Spanish, but a Nazi would call you African (or more likely some kind of slur). They care about the colour of your skin more than your actual background. Likewise, no matter how many generations your family has lived in a country or how well they pass, Nazis assert that if any of your ancestors was a Jew, you are also a Jew, and that as a Jew, you are inherently inferior to non-Jews and consequently a racial contaminant.
Just adding to this, following this same supposedly biological argument that advocates for a natural and morally correct path for the furthering of genetic lineages, Nazis persecuted homosexuality, bisexuality and trans people as a national policy, shutting down sexology research institutes, literally burning years of scientific advancements, and revoking official acknowledgements the Weimar Republic granted transgender people. It’s often forgotten, but the inherent homophobia, biphobia and transphobia of neonazis and adjacent movements is not a recent development at all: https://www.advocate.com/news/holocaust-lgbtq-victims-german-parliament
I wonder how anyone stereotyping individuals based on far-distant ancestors square up these beliefs with hominid evolution. I guess the answer is “they don’t”.
They may be talking about ethnicity vs race? Google says in basic terms, race describes physical traits, and ethnicity refers to cultural identification. Race may also be identified as something you inherit, whereas ethnicity is something you learn.
So ethnicity is certainly mutable
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Telling Nazis to fuck off rarely leads to them actually fucking off, because they’re Nazis.
then we will scrape them off our shoe as we always do with dog shit
If enough of the community makes it sufficiently clear that we’re not going to let them peddle their Nazi bullshit unopposed, including by taking whatever moderator actions are possible to get rid of them, most of the Nazis will go somewhere else and we’ll only have to deal with the typical number of Nazis for an internet platform rather than become inundated with them. Making them unwelcome by any means necessary is the name of the game.
Nazis
Let me guess. Trump and people who like him are Nazis to you?
I find it interesting that in a thread entirely about Nazis, and nothing but Nazis, you heard Trump.
Make of that what you will
Because the instance being discussed is basically TheDonald and related ideologies. Because you all don’t seem to understand what reality is.
No. Trump isn’t really an ideologue. He’s just a grifter.
But trump publicly during a debate told a Christian nationalist terrorist organization convicted of insurrection to “stand by and stand back” as if he commands them, and as if they work on his behalf.
I have zero love for Trump or his dick riders. I’m just annoyed when every time somebody posts something about “Nazis” it ends up being about idiot Trumpers so we just dilute the word to mean somebody we think is mean or has the wrong opinions.
I think it’s obvious when people say “nazis” they’re being lazy and saying fascist, bigoted, ultra nationalist, transphobic, Christian zealot-ed, islamophobic, chauvinistic, etc.
On the internet with short posts people don’t feel like typing that all out. So no, they’re not all literal nazis. But they’re very nazi adjacent. And the online communities are even more open about it than Trump is.
If you’d prefer I can go point by point I how trump and his platform are all those things. Just let me know. It would be pretty easy, but I think it’s obvious when you look at each aspect individually.
Edit:
Fascist: marching on the capitol to prevent the certification of a democratic vote. Literal insurrectionist. Convicted of sedition. Just like Mussolini Marcia su Roma.
Ultra nationalist: I mean I don’t feel like I need to do this one. It’s his entire platform. They’re not afraid to admit this.
Bigoted: Mexicans are rapists. Massive blue lives matter movement right after a very public murder by the police. The Central Park 5. Trump losing civil cases where he avoided renting to selling homes to black people. Promoting the idea, baselessly, that Obama, the first black president, is disqualified because he’s not American enough. That’s he’s a Muslim African born foreigner.
Transphobic: pretty much every red state has passed anti trans laws. They’re calling trans people pedophiles on Fox News. DeSantis entire platform (which Trumpers overwhelmingly support) is based on anti trans policy.
Christian zealotry: passing laws based on the Bible. Anti abortion laws passed in states literally citing the Bible. gay marriage opposition based on the Bible. Open call for declaring the US a Christian nation, and teaching Christianity in schools. Having prayer in schools.
Islamophobia: banning Muslims from entering the country. Using terrorism as an excuse, when every single politically motivated murder in the US last year was committed by right wing perpetrators. Birthirism.
Sexism/Chauvinism: that’s the proud boys stated ethos. Trump is extremely open about this in how he speaks. How he constantly calls non white states shitholes, how he always criticizes women for their looks etc. Trump being found liable of sexual assault. Trump constantly attacking the victims. Openly bragging on tape about sexual assault.
The thing is, every thing I can say about trump personally on this, the online communities are 10x more open about it.
Trump has the politics that gets him the most personal benefit. I think everything he does follows from that, and being an actual boomer.
That doesn’t disqualify him and his base from being called nazi like. People aren’t calling him a nazi like because of what happened in WWII. They’re calling him nazi like for how he’s similar to how Hitler behaved when he was coming to power. The rise of Hitler and Mussolini has a lot of similarities to how trump behaves now. But his online fringer base, like the one we are discussing, is even more similar.
Not necessarily, but he and people who like him are dumbasses that (at the very least) enable Nazis. To be fair, it doesn’t matter what you call them. Instead of Nazis you could say Troglodytes and everyone would know who you talk about, them included.
Only just got a notification from this, but anyway, I gave my definition for what I consider “a Nazi” here. Make of it what you will.
Vote: Yes
After a while of thinking and reviewing, I have come to the conclusion to defederate as requested. If they correct course, I’ll happily re-review them.
Thank you
Looks like this is really a right wing/fake/hate news instance. No love is lost defederating them.
So: Yes, please!
It would be unfair for me to take place in the vote (Hi from Kbin.social).
Here’s the current list of the instances (currently 92) that have defederated(block) EH.Thanks to federation this post is visible on a wide variety of instances. Which specific instance are you petitioning to defederate from exploding heads? You’re from discuss.tchncs.de so I assume that one?
Bigotry should be banned, and removed from this instance. That means not allowing bigotry on our instance. That means defederating from less clever wannabe 4chans, and less moderated The_D replacements.
They can enjoy their shithole federation.
Honestly 4chan is much better than some of these instances.
I am trying to examen the instance, it would have been helpful to have some pointers to speed up the process although it somehow sounds like a familiar domain. It sounds like such content at least was against their rules. but that of course does not have to mean much.
Looking at the comments from their team is no good impression to say the least hmm
Update: found some more potential evidence that they are not welcoming nazis, but i think there are quite a few misinformation and “the usual” shitpost things on there that are not very … enjoyable (and of course as the op implies, transphobic trash and such as to expect from a shitpost instance).
Yes, defederate these chuds. Keep them isolated! Don’t let them make this space into a Nazi bar.
Yes, defederate
Just block their domain in your instance.
How? I can only block communities, but not a whole instance. That’s the core of the problem. It’s not just **one ** toxic community that we could easily block, it’s pretty much the entire server.
Follow this link. On the right hand side you will see a box that says “domain” and beneath that “exploding-heads.com” underneath that there is a box with a link to subscribe and a symbol to block. Click on the symbol to block.
Moderation has not caught up with kbin’s growth, despite the devs being very busy. Maybe it’s best just to block for now. I’m sure that kbin will take out the trash once moderation tools and mod teams are in place.
On edit: These instructions won’t work for you, because as @vaguerant pointed out, you are not on a kbin server. However, I’m going to leave the comment up for any kbin users who might want to block that instance.
You’re talking to someone from tchncs.de, a Lemmy server. These kbin instructions won’t suit their purposes.
I asked this another day. It will allow them to spread their nazi bs to new people who aren’t aware, which can become especially dangerous because they rhetoric will be unseen and unchecked by those who blocked them.
Personally I think that’s a good enough justification for defederating vs blocking. They are outright nazis after all, idk if we really need to wring our hands over it.
Na. I would rather they have their own little isolation echo chamber so that they don’t spread out
That’s exactly what everyone defederating them would do?
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You know kbin is a communist project named after the ak47, right?
Citation needed
Oh no! Guess I’ll just have to figure out why that matters or why you think I would care.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance
Read up. Then punch a nazi. Don’t need that shit anywhere in society.
I really wish it was socially acceptable to punch a Nazi. Cops don’t like that, so I don’t do it.
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While it’s crucial to oppose harmful ideologies like Nazism, we must be wary of how we define such harmful groups. If we broaden these definitions arbitrarily, we risk encapsulating people who merely differ politically, diluting the term’s significance and unjustifiably alienating individuals. In doing so, we inadvertently shrink our own communities, polarizing society to the extent where a moderate viewpoint might be mistaken for extremism. Right-leaning communities fall into this trap as well, resulting in fragmented realities where each group exists in its own echo chamber. This division deepens societal fissures and undermines moderate views, which, in my belief, are grounded in reality and thus instrumental in achieving balanced discourse.
You’re not entirely wrong, but when we are actually talking about actual literal self-declared fascists who are obviously talking and acting fascistic, then it definitely does apply. This is a long way past any sort of grey area, dude!
This is where the need for nuance comes in. If we were dealing with a platform overrun by advocates for genocide, then defederation would be a reasonable step. But the lack of nuance creates an issue. If any perspective slightly outside your tolerance threshold is immediately labeled as Nazi, where do we draw the line? At what point on the right or the left spectrum does a viewpoint become unacceptable? The challenge lies in defining these boundaries and promoting dialogue without promoting hate.
Soooooo here’s a helpful hint to tamp down that utter confusion you seem to be having:
The guys who want armed guard genital inspectors in front of every bathroom are the bad guys.
Right, they never stated otherwise, but transphobic measures doesn’t necessarily make one a nazi. It makes you awful but there are different kinds of awful than just nazism. The risk of calling everyone a nazi is that you dilute what the word actually means so that you risk generalizing and uniting the awful people instead of separating them based on their various horrendous opinions.
transphobic measures doesn’t necessarily make one a nazi
True but neither ideology deserves a spot at the table of civilized discourse. So it’s a bit of a moot point.
It’s not a moot point when we consider the fluidity of language and the potential for any group to manipulate terms to suit their interests. If someone can blanket-label their opposition as a ‘transphobe’ or, more extreme, a ‘Nazi’, it bypasses meaningful debate and eradicates the chance to understand differing viewpoints. This not only oversimplifies complex discussions, but it also fosters a lazy and destructive discourse that can fuel animosity rather than understanding. We need to be challenged. A tree that grows without wind will not have the strength to stand in a storm.
Imagine using the ammo of “complexity” and the subjectivity of language to defend wholly unsubtle people who explicity want others harassed/harmed/dead for being their authentic selves and that authenticity has absolutely NOTHIGN to do with them personally
The vast majority of people screaming about bathrooms in the US are in fact Nazis or nazi adjacent.
There is NO reason to dump that much hate on like two or three people per state unless you just enjoy the cruelty.
Who exactly holds the authority to label ‘the bad guys’? Sure, some actions are undeniably harmful, but does that warrant placing all perceived wrongdoers in the same category, from internet trolls to murderers? Is there no nuance or room for varying degrees of transgressions? I hope you can ask yourself if you’re always on the side of righteousness, or might you be perceived as 'the bad guy" from another perspective? It’s important to understand that the world is not simply binary, and such a mindset can dangerously oversimplify complex issues.
What you are suggesting is that we, as a society, are incapable of discerning right from wrong and enforcing societal norms at all ever. Because who knows? Who has the power to determine these things?? hand wringing, pearl clutching
Let me tell you who: Anyone with two brain cells and a heart. Fascism has a clear definition. People who are being called Nazis because they openly hate and advocate for the genocide of trans people are being called Nazis because THEY ARE ACTING LIKE NAZIS.
We absolutely have no obligation to air their bigoted, make believe grievances in public. We have every right to shut them down and shut them up to protect vulnerable minority populations.
Stop JAQing off and pretending otherwise.
Nazis exist, and they are abhorrent. But is it fair to label the entire community of exploding-heads as such? Or, is it that the platform tolerates a broader range of discourse than you are comfortable with? Yes, Nazis may be part of the mix, but so too might be their staunch opponents. Assigning people to preconceived boxes based on assumed beliefs isn’t conducive to understanding. While we concur on opposing Nazis, I refuse to disregard an entire group’s perspectives because I may disagree with some. It’s crucial to engage with opposing views for a balanced discourse, a principle applicable to everyone.
It is NOT crucial to engage in any kind of discourse with fascists who advocate genocide (aka Nazis)
And you know what you have if a “normal” person sits down to dinner with 10 Nazis? You have 11 Nazis.
There is no room for tolerance of Nazis, nor of those who coddle and enable Nazis.
So yes. It’s fair.
Bro everyone knows you don’t find nazis abhorrent. Fuck off.
Who exactly holds the authority to label ‘the bad guys’?
People who don’t get their rocks off by investing more effort into hating the marginalized.
This isn’t about me and this isn’t about subtlety. On the whole LGBT+haters are nazi adjacent and they get a kick out of hating the marginalized, and they do it VERY LOUDLY.
Like literally it’s the AMERICA FIRST!ers here that are now specifically hating on like the two or three trans people in each state who play sports, and like the maybe handful of total trans people in each state in comparison to state population.
Sounds to me like you group everyone who has an even remotely different viewpoint than you in to one category so you can easily hate and discredit them all without ever actually thinking critically.
You’re just bringing up ideas you don’t like and then creating a strawman character that you can hate. You know they think the same way about you right? Do you not see how this leads to misinformation and unnecessary hatred? Solving nothing and creating even more division is not something I will stand behind.
Sounds to me like you’re definitely a fucking nazi
Paradox of Tolerance in action, right here.
Why vote? Isn’t that the decision for the instance admins to make? (And also their job?)
Just ping them and also flag offending posts.
So the admins can make a better decision by knowing what their community thinks.
Just directly write them a message. I don’t think it needs a vote by the majority of the community to exclude some right wing crypto bros who like transphobia etc
Also if you focus your energy here instead of notifying an admin, they might not read it and you kinda did the opposite of what you intended. Focus your energy here only if the admins and moderation don’t do their job properly.
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That’s how admins of reddit shut down third party apps without asking users
