The Lemmygrad mod team has deliberated and decided that “patsocs”, especially those claiming the title such as Maupin, Hinckle, and Infrared, are hereby banned and are not welcome on lemmygrad.
This ban does not include those who feel some level of “patriotism” (for lack of a better word) for non-settler states ( namely those who have historically been victims of colonialism ).
Discussions surrounding the topics of settler-colonialism, and decolonization will always be allowed, as long as they don’t veer into the territory of defenses of colonialism, or affinity with colonizer over the colonized.
This includes:
- No apologia of settler-colonialism, or defenses of colonizer over the colonized. IE no defenses of Israelis over Palestinians, or European Settlers over indigenous americans fighting for the return of stolen lands.
- Please adhere to the Marxist-Leninist principle of Right of Nations to Self-Determination: especially holding true for indigeous peoples.
- Please adhere to the Marxist-Leninist principle of Proletarian Internationalism.
- No social-chauvinism, or opportunistic appeals to “conservative values” to win converts to socialism.
Here are some Marxist books / resources to learn more about Settler-Colonialism ( Audiobook torrents are linked as well )
- Roxanne Dunbar-Ortiz - An indigenous people’s history of the US . audiobook
- Walter Rodney - How europe underdeveloped Africa . audiobook
- Zak Cope - Divided world divided class . audiobook
- Nick Estes - Red Nation Rising: From Bordertown Violence to Native Liberation
- J. Sakai - Settlers : The Mythology of the white proletariat . audiobook
- Roxanne Dunbar-Ortiz - Not a nation of immigrants . audiobook
- Rashid Khalidi - The hundred years war on Palestine . audiobook
- Galeano - Open veins of latin america . audiobook
- Vincent Bevins - The Jakarta method . audiobook
- Fanon - The wretched of the earth . audiobook
- CLR James - The Black Jacobins . audiobook
The CIA is probably going to use patsocs to infiltrate marxist groups and distract the public.
Marxist parties in the U.S should hopefully start banning them soon.
Why in particular would the CIA use patsocs specifically?
By turning socialism into a “conservative-friendly” movement, they defang it and take away its revolutionary potential, and easily steer it to social chauvinist directions. There’s a long history of them doing this with labor movements, and this happened in almost every country going back to Lenin’s day.
This is why most of Marxism’s greatest works are polemics against social chauvinists / reactionary “socialists” ( state and rev, the renegade kautsky, reform or revolution, critique of the gotha programme ).
Reread the post text above.
Unless you’re a Patsoc as in Socialism with Patrick Star characteristics. Then you’re a valued member of this forum.
Obsessed with this image
This ban does not include those who feel some level of “patriotism” (for lack of a better word) for non-settler states ( namely those who have historically been victims of colonialism ).
How about past or future proletarian states?
Such as?
Past socialist state as in USSR or PRL or DDR for example. Future, as in the ones for which establishment socialists are fighting, names and scope are probably yet to be decided.
Of course not, we support the USSR and DDR here, neither were settler-colonialist states. The USSR and peoples in eastern europe were the victim of european colonialism in the form of nazism.
The nazis really wanted to emulate what the US settler project acheived, and they were explicit about that, and do to eastern europe what the US did to turtle island.
On a side note, can i block single thread or single community on lemmy so to not see it?
You can block communities
How? I just see block user button?
As soon as I learned the most basic beginnings of the Labor Aristocracy, a year or so ago, I competely dropped any semblance of patriotism dwelling inside of me. It made me think, why should our proletariat of the first world take priority over the third world’s exploitation which in most cases is more exploitative, more dangerous, and grants less individual and mass freedoms. And obviously the first world proletariat works hard and they absolutely must be freed, but not at the expense of the third world. Sweden is a decent example. They (not for covid) care about wages and benefits and good stuff like that, but ask them about helping Africa or something and you’ll hear nothing. USA is a great example of the unequal order of labor. The Oil Workers benefit from putting pipelines through indigenous lands. It’s cheapest to put the pipeline on a straight path, in some cases right thru indigenous land, thus needing less construction to reroute and profit is higher. Let’s say that the oil company(humor me for a sec) increases wages because of the massive profits. What we see is the indigenous community being subjugated and tosses to the side for the benefit of the 1st world proletariat. PatSoc can come off as correct when talking about wanting higher wages and better representation, but it’s like the Sex Trade in the fact that when you, the proletarian, have your interests lined up with that of your industry(the petrol industry for “protection of jobs against Climate initiatives” or pimps and johns for “legalization/legitimacy of sex work”) you will be tricked into supporting policies that do not help you but your boss or customers.
LG admin here to say patriotism for countries like Palestine, Afghanistan, Vietnam, etc. is acceptable as they were colonized by invaders and “patriotism” for those countries is solidarity with indigenous and local populations and their ways of life, however patriotism for countries like the US, the UK, most of Europe, etc. is not and can not be acceptable, because to be “patriotic” for them you must accept the rape, murder, and theft of the indigenous populations they invaded.
Until the US comes under a red banner, American Patriotism will only stand as an acceptance of the manifest destiny pillaging of Natives, the Jim Crow laws that still in certain ways exist today, the recent overturning of Abortion, etc. Marxism and patriotism for the US are like oil and water, and those who try to mix the two have no business here.
Consider this a 4th of July present for any patsocs wanting to infiltrate Lemmygrad.
The wildest take from them was Zionist defense. I never knew, they believe things as silly as the Israeli working class is brainwashed into wanting free houses, they don’t really want them.
Where are y’all running into these people? I see people who have opened discussion on how to possibly use existing American patriotism as a radicalization tool (I’m against it, but still understand why there are those that see some value in the idea). But I’m fortunate enough not to have run into any of these specifically terrible takes yet. Seriously, who the f are these “socialists” that support Israel?
This was a critically important move as the PatSocs here were using our communities to platform some of the most insidious rhetoric I’ve seen in a long time. I have no doubt that the recent surge in Patriotic Socialism is connected with Western propaganda bodies. It’s particularly telling that not only were they present arguments that would lead to the US becoming another “National Socialist”/openly fascist state, but that they were also heavily invested in the idea that Europeans were allowed to be Pat Socs because they weren’t on Turtle Island.
The fact that this also was coming to head just as the US is seeing Proud Boys activity increasing is also one of those “coincidences don’t exist” feelings.
