And will that help reduce violent deaths at all in the future? A large number of shooters are just out to commit a mass murder-suicide. Who does this serve justice to? Or is this just to get people feeling like they’ve been “avenged”?
I know it’s a cliche, but it is a bit dumb to kill someone to show that killing is wrong.
Why waste resources on one who has proven themselves to be the worst kind of man? He won’t learn a lesson. He doesn’t deserve an opportunity to ever rejoin society. Your suggestion is to house, feed and provide medicine for this monster for the rest of his life. To give him what millions of Americans can not obtain. You want to reward his actions.
The death penalty is not revenge. It’s not a lesson.It should not be seen as some deterrent. It’s culling a sick animal so it can’t do any more harm to the rest of the population. It can be done quickly, humanely, and even cleanly though the cheapest method would make a small, containable mess.
There’s no good summary that I found in my five mins of research, and a lot of it came from https://deathpenaltyinfo.org, which appears to be a very biased nonprofit against the death penalty.
But the info seems consistent all around. It costs more because since it’s such a big deal for the state to kill somebody, the legal costs skyrocket dramatically. Hence, it’s more expense.
Again, 5 minutes of research. Somebody correct me. It still smells a bit funny if this cost is lifetime of the prisoner vs someone who has life in prison for multiple decades.
The costs come from years if not decades of appeals that are legally required after someone is sentenced to death, among other things like the cost of the chemicals used for lethal injection.
Factually, the anti death penalty advocates are correct about the expense argument, but it’s largely of their own doing because they’re the ones who imposed those expenses on the government by pushing for such laws. They literally largely made it a problem.
That is not and never has been the reason for capital punishment. The kind of people who should be executed are not doing the kind of crimes that are deterred. The point is to remove the individual who is not compatible with society.
I don’t necessarily disagree with the reasons behind your conclusion, but it costs more to execute a prisoner than to house them for life. The nature of the death penalty means that every appeal must be heard and fought through, which is one reason why it takes so long to kill them after conviction. All of those people involved in that process are thus being dragged away from other things they could be doing.
About the only time an execution occurs quickly is if the individual decides not to appeal. Rare, understandably. The other option would be to ignore the appeals process, and frankly we have already executed too many innocents for any person, even those who believe in the death penalty, to believe that would be justice.
Do you think it’s a waste of resources to even give him a trial? Death penalty trials are long and expensive and often cost more than lifelong incarceration. You might be okay with a low bar for having the government remove someone from society but I think the bar should be high, and the decision shouldn’t be done lightly. However, keeping that bar high also takes more resources so the issue isn’t as easy as you make it out to be.
Americans not being able to obtain housing and the rising homelessness does not mean we should employ capital punishment, which is an expensive and inhumane procedure where there is a chance to take away the life of those potentially innocent, not to mention that it doesn’t actually reduce or deter crime. In fact, it seems that places with more capital punishment have more violent crime.
Yes, because he’s a fascist actively helping his cult to take over the country and can only be stopped with violence.
No one wants him dead to prove all killing is wrong, they want him dead because he is genocidal and a threat to the existence of everyone else. Don’t you bother trying to understand how other people think and feel, or do you think your arrogance and unwarranted sense of superiority over your opponents is what empathy is?
There are things that society can decide. That’s part of being a society. Sometimes it’s stupid, like men can’t wear women’s clothing. Sometimes it’s right, like you can’t be an unrepentant mass murderer and continue to live among us.
On the contrary, this individual already made that choice.
I’m not pro-death penalty at all. Generally quite the opposite. Too many over-zealous prosecutors, too many shitty cops, etc. just trying to be “tough on crime”, close a case and save their jobs. However there have been instances where I don’t have a problem with it. The Nuremberg trials. Or maybe in instances where irrefutable, undeniable proof exists.
That said, I’d far, far prefer this person live in a hole for the rest of their life. Death is too easy an out, and IMO a life with no purpose, future, change, or hope is hell. They should get just that.
🤣 Oh, you’re so cute when you pretend your way of thinking is an axiom inherently better than others.
Communities DO have that right because they’re the community and they’re the ones who make the rules. There is no god or goddess dictating morality to us humans no matter how badly people want to pretend there is, there is only ourselves and nature, and we as the self-aware ones who invented morality have the right to make those choices because it’s OUR institution.
We will, because that is the way reality is whether you want to accept it or not. Your god is NOT coming to save you because he is not real. He is a fictional character in a book.
Communities have the right to make those decisions because the well being of their constituents is in the balance. Humans are diverse, self-aware, and have free will, and they can actively choose to do helpful or destructive things whenever they want. That also means they have diverse interests, and those interests directly conflict with one another. A or not A. B or not B. And we can’t have both. That means communities have to make hard choices about whose needs and interests it is going to place above others, because logically it is impossible to make both happy. And given the whole point of a fucking community is to protect the best interests of its members, it’s those interests it has to prioritize above everything else.
This is why communities not only have the right to kill humans that threaten it, but have a responsibility to. Because its members have to be placed higher in importance to those who threaten or harm it for the community to survive.
This is the world we live in based on the laws of physics and evolution. It is NOT going to change just because you don’t like it.
Do what you tell every rape victim to do when they call you out on your obvious immoral shit: get over it and move on, honey, or the world will move on without you.
For the life of me, I just want to know where that rape crap came from. Like… At least they should have asked me first or checked my comment history to understand my view on rape yet they made the assumption and moved on. Ironically, I myself was raped as a teenager /: so congrats to that edgy SJW, they just did something dumb as fuck to a rape victim, big no no in SJW world.
Yes, that is what is moral. That’s why communities have the death penalty.
It also literally doesn’t matter if you want to accuse me of using a naturalistic fallacy or not, it’s reality whether you want to admit it or not.
All morality ultimately boils down to is our feelings, the community’s feelings, and what works in the real world and in the real world, you’re just wrong.
It’s up to you to put your ego and pride to the side and actually think about what I’m saying.
Now you think that your own moral outlook and beliefs are objective facts when they’re really not, and you think your axioms are shared by everyone when they are not. The world doesn’t revolve around you. You don’t dictate morality to us. We dictate it to you.
And yet another essay rofl told you that you love it!
Your god is NOT coming to save you because he is not real.
Sorry, could you stop for a moment and please explain to me who you think I am?
Like what’s this stuff about god and genocide? I’m an atheist.
Sorry but…
I want to write this in title, so please imagine me saying this in a REALLY LOUD VOICE just to make sure you don’t respond by jumping into a whole different topic, but what god?!? Where in my profile or my text did I ever say I believe in god? How did you come to this conclusion? Man, I think you’re like… confused.
Do what you tell every rape victim to do when they call you out on your obvious immoral shit: get over it and move on, honey, or the world will move on without you.
I am a rape victim myself. I was raped at age 15/16 by a medical professional. My parents didn’t believe me and the police told me to better not report it because as a girl I’d get into more trouble than it’s worth. It took me lots of therapy to overcome this trauma.
Again, who do you think you’re talking to? You seem to get everything about me wrong in every single post and I don’t understand what would motivate anyone to waste so much time being like this.
This is the world we live in based on the laws of physics and evolution. It is NOT going to change just because you don’t like it.
It’s not going to change if you do like it.
This is why communities not only have the right to kill humans that threaten it, but have a responsibility to.
Sounds like a pretense for human rights violations ROFL
Doesn’t it serve justice to the families and friends of the people who he has killed? I can’t imagine them feeling a sense of justice when their tax dollars are put to work to get this guy back into society.
Only because the methods employed are stupidly wasteful and overcomplicated. The process needs to be overhauled in a logical and pragmatic way. The problem with current means of execution is that feelings were brought into the equation in the first place.
Then allow executions within days with cheaper, more humane methods like bullets. The only reason it’s more expensive is because of you, and it should not be.
Speeding up executions means more innocent people will be wrongfully executed. How many innocent people are you willing to kill to make sure this this asshole fries?
Oh the fuck well, that’s the price you pay for living in a society. All societies require their sacrificial lambs in order to prop themselves up because no legal system is perfect nor capable of being so, but we still have to put the well-being of our community above those who threaten or wrong it whether we make mistakes or not. And we give the state the benefit of the doubt in such circumstances because we accept that it’s the only way a community can be functional and work without even WORSE sacrifices.
You’re gonna tell me that we can’t give life back to those we take it from knowing that’s just as true with people wrongfully convicted and thrown in prison for life – the people who you sentence to be raped, tortured, enslaved, and STILL murdered anyway because your selfish, entitled ass thinks your opinions are better than others. And you absolve yourself of responsibility for the extreme cruelty and suffering you cause by telling yourself, “Well at least they’re alive,” which is a cop-out.
It’s far more humane to execute someone quickly after a trial because it minimizes the convicted’s suffering, it’s far better for the safety of the community because you are getting rid of a known offender even if the odds they’re actually guilty aren’t 100% perfect, it’s much more morally conscionable than expecting the community and victims to live in fear of offenders and ultimately is the better, more moral way.
But you don’t understand that because you’re not emphasizing with anyone else, you only care about how you feel about death personally and that is 100% a you problem.
How is executing someone keeping us safer from them than just throwing them in prison? Prison escapes, especially of dangerous, death row level offenders are exceedingly rare, at least in the US. People will point to deterrence, but no scientific studies have been able to demonstrate any significant deterrence effect of capital punishment. You’re just killing people out of anger.
I get it, many of these offenders are abhorrent. I won’t lose any sleep over the supermarket shooter getting his. But the death penalty should be abolished.
And you know you don’t have a rational leg to stand on, so when called out on your shit, you do what any self-righteous, self-involved dipshit does: fall back to tired old stereotypes and meaningless insults.
Why in the world would you think acting that way will convince anyone of anything? Convince me to change my mind?
Good for you, there are 197 other countries in the world. You can keep pretending you’re better than everyone else while ignoring the governments of Nordic countries hide the truth behind the crimes their people suffer to keep up this image of perfection they project. The rest of the world knows the truth, though.
Either way, that’s pretty tangential to the death penalty unless your stance is “Well Sweden doesn’t have it so we’re better than you, nah nah nah nah nah” like that’s supposed to work on actual adults. 🤦
I don’t understand the connection between capital punishment and crime. could you please explain it to me? how does the death penalty deter crimes? are there some statistics that you could show me? thanks.
And will that help reduce violent deaths at all in the future? A large number of shooters are just out to commit a mass murder-suicide. Who does this serve justice to? Or is this just to get people feeling like they’ve been “avenged”?
I know it’s a cliche, but it is a bit dumb to kill someone to show that killing is wrong.
Why waste resources on one who has proven themselves to be the worst kind of man? He won’t learn a lesson. He doesn’t deserve an opportunity to ever rejoin society. Your suggestion is to house, feed and provide medicine for this monster for the rest of his life. To give him what millions of Americans can not obtain. You want to reward his actions.
The death penalty is not revenge. It’s not a lesson.It should not be seen as some deterrent. It’s culling a sick animal so it can’t do any more harm to the rest of the population. It can be done quickly, humanely, and even cleanly though the cheapest method would make a small, containable mess.
In the US it usually three times more expensive to put someone to death than to incarcerate them for life
Wow today I learned!
There’s no good summary that I found in my five mins of research, and a lot of it came from
https://deathpenaltyinfo.org, which appears to be a very biased nonprofit against the death penalty.But the info seems consistent all around. It costs more because since it’s such a big deal for the state to kill somebody, the legal costs skyrocket dramatically. Hence, it’s more expense.
https://www.quora.com/How-is-lethal-injection-more-expensive-than-the-costs-of-having-someone-serve-a-life-sentence
Again, 5 minutes of research. Somebody correct me. It still smells a bit funny if this cost is lifetime of the prisoner vs someone who has life in prison for multiple decades.
The costs come from years if not decades of appeals that are legally required after someone is sentenced to death, among other things like the cost of the chemicals used for lethal injection.
Factually, the anti death penalty advocates are correct about the expense argument, but it’s largely of their own doing because they’re the ones who imposed those expenses on the government by pushing for such laws. They literally largely made it a problem.
But do you have any research that shows it reduces or deters crime?
That is not and never has been the reason for capital punishment. The kind of people who should be executed are not doing the kind of crimes that are deterred. The point is to remove the individual who is not compatible with society.
I don’t necessarily disagree with the reasons behind your conclusion, but it costs more to execute a prisoner than to house them for life. The nature of the death penalty means that every appeal must be heard and fought through, which is one reason why it takes so long to kill them after conviction. All of those people involved in that process are thus being dragged away from other things they could be doing.
About the only time an execution occurs quickly is if the individual decides not to appeal. Rare, understandably. The other option would be to ignore the appeals process, and frankly we have already executed too many innocents for any person, even those who believe in the death penalty, to believe that would be justice.
Do you think it’s a waste of resources to even give him a trial? Death penalty trials are long and expensive and often cost more than lifelong incarceration. You might be okay with a low bar for having the government remove someone from society but I think the bar should be high, and the decision shouldn’t be done lightly. However, keeping that bar high also takes more resources so the issue isn’t as easy as you make it out to be.
Americans not being able to obtain housing and the rising homelessness does not mean we should employ capital punishment, which is an expensive and inhumane procedure where there is a chance to take away the life of those potentially innocent, not to mention that it doesn’t actually reduce or deter crime. In fact, it seems that places with more capital punishment have more violent crime.
Yes, because he’s a fascist actively helping his cult to take over the country and can only be stopped with violence.
No one wants him dead to prove all killing is wrong, they want him dead because he is genocidal and a threat to the existence of everyone else. Don’t you bother trying to understand how other people think and feel, or do you think your arrogance and unwarranted sense of superiority over your opponents is what empathy is?
“Unwarranted sense of superiority” says the person who thinks that we as a society somehow have the right to choose to end someone’s life.
There are things that society can decide. That’s part of being a society. Sometimes it’s stupid, like men can’t wear women’s clothing. Sometimes it’s right, like you can’t be an unrepentant mass murderer and continue to live among us.
Going against basic human rights, that should never be anything anyone can decide.
On the contrary, this individual already made that choice.
I’m not pro-death penalty at all. Generally quite the opposite. Too many over-zealous prosecutors, too many shitty cops, etc. just trying to be “tough on crime”, close a case and save their jobs. However there have been instances where I don’t have a problem with it. The Nuremberg trials. Or maybe in instances where irrefutable, undeniable proof exists.
That said, I’d far, far prefer this person live in a hole for the rest of their life. Death is too easy an out, and IMO a life with no purpose, future, change, or hope is hell. They should get just that.
I’m glad you’re not pro death penalty, because it turns out that it doesn’t deter crime nor reduce violence, nor saves money, nor has any practical value whatsoever, doing more harm than it does good
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🤣 Oh, you’re so cute when you pretend your way of thinking is an axiom inherently better than others.
Communities DO have that right because they’re the community and they’re the ones who make the rules. There is no god or goddess dictating morality to us humans no matter how badly people want to pretend there is, there is only ourselves and nature, and we as the self-aware ones who invented morality have the right to make those choices because it’s OUR institution.
And not yours.
Right. Keep living in the shitty current world we’re in with that thinking.
We will, because that is the way reality is whether you want to accept it or not. Your god is NOT coming to save you because he is not real. He is a fictional character in a book.
Communities have the right to make those decisions because the well being of their constituents is in the balance. Humans are diverse, self-aware, and have free will, and they can actively choose to do helpful or destructive things whenever they want. That also means they have diverse interests, and those interests directly conflict with one another. A or not A. B or not B. And we can’t have both. That means communities have to make hard choices about whose needs and interests it is going to place above others, because logically it is impossible to make both happy. And given the whole point of a fucking community is to protect the best interests of its members, it’s those interests it has to prioritize above everything else.
This is why communities not only have the right to kill humans that threaten it, but have a responsibility to. Because its members have to be placed higher in importance to those who threaten or harm it for the community to survive.
This is the world we live in based on the laws of physics and evolution. It is NOT going to change just because you don’t like it.
Do what you tell every rape victim to do when they call you out on your obvious immoral shit: get over it and move on, honey, or the world will move on without you.
you’re ok with putting a bullet in every rapists head aren’t you
btw your appeal to nature fallacy is showing
For the life of me, I just want to know where that rape crap came from. Like… At least they should have asked me first or checked my comment history to understand my view on rape yet they made the assumption and moved on. Ironically, I myself was raped as a teenager /: so congrats to that edgy SJW, they just did something dumb as fuck to a rape victim, big no no in SJW world.
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yeah I’m done engaging, not about to unpack a lifetime of trauma in a few comments.
Yes, that is what is moral. That’s why communities have the death penalty.
It also literally doesn’t matter if you want to accuse me of using a naturalistic fallacy or not, it’s reality whether you want to admit it or not.
All morality ultimately boils down to is our feelings, the community’s feelings, and what works in the real world and in the real world, you’re just wrong.
It’s up to you to put your ego and pride to the side and actually think about what I’m saying.
Now you think that your own moral outlook and beliefs are objective facts when they’re really not, and you think your axioms are shared by everyone when they are not. The world doesn’t revolve around you. You don’t dictate morality to us. We dictate it to you.
who the fuck is this we? who do you think you’re representing? the justice league?
Jesus you’re really no better than this murderous fascist.
And yet another essay rofl told you that you love it!
Sorry, could you stop for a moment and please explain to me who you think I am?
Like what’s this stuff about god and genocide? I’m an atheist.
Sorry but…
I want to write this in title, so please imagine me saying this in a REALLY LOUD VOICE just to make sure you don’t respond by jumping into a whole different topic, but what god?!? Where in my profile or my text did I ever say I believe in god? How did you come to this conclusion? Man, I think you’re like… confused.
I am a rape victim myself. I was raped at age 15/16 by a medical professional. My parents didn’t believe me and the police told me to better not report it because as a girl I’d get into more trouble than it’s worth. It took me lots of therapy to overcome this trauma.
Again, who do you think you’re talking to? You seem to get everything about me wrong in every single post and I don’t understand what would motivate anyone to waste so much time being like this.
It’s not going to change if you do like it.
Sounds like a pretense for human rights violations ROFL
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Doesn’t it serve justice to the families and friends of the people who he has killed? I can’t imagine them feeling a sense of justice when their tax dollars are put to work to get this guy back into society.
He doesn’t have to go back to society. Him being sent to prison for life is justice.
Costs money to pay for his living, food, room, guards, water, sewer plumbing, air, heat, AC
It costs a hell of a lot more to execute someone, believe it or not.
Edit: damn, y’all are some bloodthirsty motherfuckers.
Only time it costs more is when the cops loses a lawsuit for unloading their clips on an innocent black person
Only because the methods employed are stupidly wasteful and overcomplicated. The process needs to be overhauled in a logical and pragmatic way. The problem with current means of execution is that feelings were brought into the equation in the first place.
Then allow executions within days with cheaper, more humane methods like bullets. The only reason it’s more expensive is because of you, and it should not be.
Speeding up executions means more innocent people will be wrongfully executed. How many innocent people are you willing to kill to make sure this this asshole fries?
Oh the fuck well, that’s the price you pay for living in a society. All societies require their sacrificial lambs in order to prop themselves up because no legal system is perfect nor capable of being so, but we still have to put the well-being of our community above those who threaten or wrong it whether we make mistakes or not. And we give the state the benefit of the doubt in such circumstances because we accept that it’s the only way a community can be functional and work without even WORSE sacrifices.
You’re gonna tell me that we can’t give life back to those we take it from knowing that’s just as true with people wrongfully convicted and thrown in prison for life – the people who you sentence to be raped, tortured, enslaved, and STILL murdered anyway because your selfish, entitled ass thinks your opinions are better than others. And you absolve yourself of responsibility for the extreme cruelty and suffering you cause by telling yourself, “Well at least they’re alive,” which is a cop-out.
It’s far more humane to execute someone quickly after a trial because it minimizes the convicted’s suffering, it’s far better for the safety of the community because you are getting rid of a known offender even if the odds they’re actually guilty aren’t 100% perfect, it’s much more morally conscionable than expecting the community and victims to live in fear of offenders and ultimately is the better, more moral way.
But you don’t understand that because you’re not emphasizing with anyone else, you only care about how you feel about death personally and that is 100% a you problem.
How is executing someone keeping us safer from them than just throwing them in prison? Prison escapes, especially of dangerous, death row level offenders are exceedingly rare, at least in the US. People will point to deterrence, but no scientific studies have been able to demonstrate any significant deterrence effect of capital punishment. You’re just killing people out of anger.
I get it, many of these offenders are abhorrent. I won’t lose any sleep over the supermarket shooter getting his. But the death penalty should be abolished.
If we need to sacrifice human beings, would you like to volunteer? -.-
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You sound like a member of a Jim Crow era lynch mob. Screw due process, he just looks guilty. Yeehaw!
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And you know you don’t have a rational leg to stand on, so when called out on your shit, you do what any self-righteous, self-involved dipshit does: fall back to tired old stereotypes and meaningless insults.
Why in the world would you think acting that way will convince anyone of anything? Convince me to change my mind?
I wouldn’t feel any sense of justice if my tax money went to killing people.
We will, though, and you will put up with it.
I live in Sweden. My tax money doesn’t go to any capital punishments because Sweden outlawed them in the 70’s (last known use was in 1910).
Good for you, there are 197 other countries in the world. You can keep pretending you’re better than everyone else while ignoring the governments of Nordic countries hide the truth behind the crimes their people suffer to keep up this image of perfection they project. The rest of the world knows the truth, though.
Either way, that’s pretty tangential to the death penalty unless your stance is “Well Sweden doesn’t have it so we’re better than you, nah nah nah nah nah” like that’s supposed to work on actual adults. 🤦
I don’t understand the connection between capital punishment and crime. could you please explain it to me? how does the death penalty deter crimes? are there some statistics that you could show me? thanks.