I’ve driven many new Mercedes models and have come to the conclusion that this brand does steering better than anyone right now. From a Metris Van to a GLE…MB steering has a way of being light and very accurate. Very little steering effort and corrections are needed. Kind of weird not many journalists mention this as far as I know.
Does anyone know what makes their steering so good? Mechanical parts or calibration?
Go drive an Alfa Romeo. But yeah, they’re good.
It’s good for it’s primary purpose of being a daily driver. I would not want it when driving on fast. You wouldn’t know what the front wheels are doing or be able to correct a slide.
So true. When I drive hard, on my MINI I can feel how the tyre sidewall gives up, how the front inner wheel is overloaded even before I start significantly understeering. On the Merc I don’t have that many fine details. It is more like “sliding: yes/no”.
Probably helps that your Mini is a performance application whereas the Merc is the most basic C Class available
Based on WHAT? Low effort steering is not it bro
Low effort steering provides little feedback and feels like ass, it doesn’t weight up at all in turns.
Love the steering in my SLR McLaren. Very precise but a bit weighted.
Light steering with little effort is not sporty
Recently I test drove a Mini Cooper S. My usual test drive is on a bendy road around a nearby lake and some straights thereabouts. Was missing the steering of my AMG 43 coupè on every single corner. It’s a bit softer on the Cooper, but the precision and feel on the AMG is just another level… I do happen to have an old Hyundai accent (sold as Verna in my country) as well that I use as a beater. In terms of softness, the Cooper sits about 80% of the way between the Verna and the AMG.
What was the production year of that AMG? Interesting, it’s either the AMG or the previous years Mercs had better steering. I own a 2019 non-AMG W205 and a same year JCW and they aren’t even close in that regard.
AMG '22, Mini '23. And yes, the AMGs have much sharper and harder steering, brakes, suspension and accelerator feedback than non AMG models from personal experience (I have also driven gla and GLC). As a matter of fact, I think the feedback on the JCW is somewhat better than the S. I think we have ended up experiencing different spectrums of the two brands. Especially given my assessment of the Hyundai feedback is the same as what you’ve mentioned… Hence ranked it at the bottom.
Every merc Ive driven that was modern was almost completely bereft of feedback and feel. And they have rack wear issues on a lot of models too that nakes them vague as they age. Can’t say there’s anything special about them really, and I have one.
MB steering has a way of being light and very accurate. Very little steering effort and corrections are needed. Kind of weird not many journalists mention this as far as I know.
Journalists are all sports car enthusiasts and former race car drivers who don’t value light steering with little effort.
Because this type of electric steering has little feel for those people, a bad connection to the driver and road. 99%+ of people won’t understand this because they are not driving their cars at the limits, they are using it for practical purposes on the street. When cars went from hydraulic to electric steering, enthusiasts were very upset. Same with when cars went from no power steering to hydraulic. These all cause the car to lose steering feel and connection to the road.
Modern Mercedes steering is vague and uninspiring for the weight of their cars.
Just an average consumer, not a journalist or race car driver.
Your flair tells me you’re a sports car enthusiast. That’s not the average consumer.
I used to drive a bunch of different emergency vehicles. Most of them based on the most recent Sprinter models and they were fine but whenever I had the choice I’d take the 1995 Sprinter.
I loved that thing. It gave me a whole different level of confidence while driving. All the controls were heavy af and after particularly long days my left leg and my forearms would be sore. But I always felt I could trust it more than the newer ones.
Had a couple of Fords too, those can fuck right off. I dont want my inputs to be rough suggestions. Really sketchy when you have to go fast in a bulky shoebox with varying payloads.
Guess what I’m trying to say is you got a point but I prefer heavy steering even in something that I’m not driving for fun.
Probably a nice rack, with the motor on the rack and not the column, for starters. Add careful assist tuning, with lots of assist to make it light and a good speed curve to make it consistent. Also good bushings in everything to take slack out. Suspension geometry and tires too, of course, though I think Metris van drivers aren’t dealing with very high slip angles, so there might not be as much magic there.
Modern cars that aren’t named Wrangler tend to have real solid/precise front suspension, so my guess it that you are mostly feeling the rack parts choice and calibration - but I’d love to hear from an actual engineer.
Gotta love a Mercedes with a nice rack.
Is Mercedes her real name tho?
And there it is… was waiting on that one. 😆
Geometry.
Tbh I find Merc W205 (the only one I owned) steering too light to my taste. Compared to Mini it also reacts to steering inputs with a certain amount of laziness.
Bizarrely that’s the opposite of my experience with the same car, I find it heavy, especially compared to say a Toyota. So I wonder if mine has a problem or if yours had a problem? Hmm
I think that is a thing of contrasts and previous driving experience. I drove a rental Camry for some time. My memory might be bad but I remember it as super light. Steering on the Mini feels heavier in comfort mode than on the Merc in Sport. My wife who usually drives the Merc says my Mini is too heavy but I like it exactly like this. Also, depends on the tyres. I feel switching from summer Michelin Pilot Super Sport to winter Continental TS850P in the steering wheel a lot.
I was inspired to borrow the car again this morning and check the tyres. Turns out they were far too low since the dealer replaced them. Once they were pumped up to spec the steering is better, if still a little heavy for my liking.
Same here, at one point we had a C205 C63s and a F56 JCW and the Mini blew the AMG out of the water in steering feel.
The AMG felt like driving a comercial Van, light, little input and no feedback.
O own a s205 and i find the steering great for a e segment luxury car. I also drive a elantra n and the steering is great for a sports car. Drive a normal mini a few years ago and it was needlessness heavy.
I’m an Electric Power Steering (EPS) tuner working for an OEM in the automotive industry. AMA.
In the days of EPS, it’s less clear how to explain how a particular vehicle or manufacturer achieves a certain steering feel. I think most drivers, including enthusiasts, vastly underestimate how much tunability there is in EPS and how widely the tuner can vary the steering feel keeping all things but software constant. Steering feel is almost completely subjective with only a few factors being universally agreed as objective areas that make steering feel better or worse. So, MB steering character might be excellent to some drivers while others don’t like it at all.
From my own evaluation of some of the MB vehicles mentioned in this thread, here’s my analysis:
The tire, being the part that touches the road and does the steering, will always have the largest effect on steering response and feel. MB tends to equip good tires that respond with little on-center delay and a linear response shape.
Having the assist motor mounted to the rack (instead of the column) helps, but it isn’t that simple. There isn’t anything inherently bad with column-mounted EPS, so long as the compliance is managed. Rack-mounted systems tend to be stiffer, which is better for response and gives the tuner more flexibility in parameters that the system can support, but the small differences in system compliance are usually only detectable by experts.
Geometry was mentioned by someone and it makes the list, but it isn’t the most significant factor. More trail creates more self-aligning torque in the wheel, which drivers will refer to as “more feel”, but it’s really just effort. Certain aspects of the geometry can promote or attenuate road feedback, but small potatoes. Clever steering tuning can trick drivers to think there is more or less trail, more or less response.
In my opinion, the biggest thing creating the MB steering character is the tuning. MB uses lots of assist with lots of damping. This creates a feel with a good amount of control and the combination of the “lightness” of the assist and “heaviness” of the damping gives a highly-filtered feeling of isolation that feels premium to some. The effort shape isn’t very steep and there’s no goofiness around center, so you get a linear, comfortable feel, even if it isn’t 100% matching what the tire is doing down below.
As a mechanical engineer in steering for an OEM this is a very well written response. Gone are the days of swapping valve grinds and t-bars!
Mercedes made the jump to Michelin tires a while ago and the steering feel benefited. Especially on Cup 2 applications.
As a owner of a Civic Type R that has 3 unique settings for the steering feel I agree, there is a ton of customization possible with a EPS rack. The “heavy” setting is by far my favorite, it eliminates unwanted inputs from bumps and grooves in the road.
How do you feel about some of the earlier applications of EPS, especially in Honda and Acura products if you have any knowledge. I really enjoyed my Acura TSX’s steering as long as I have great tires on despite its slightly dead on-center feel. Really looking to find something similar in a similarly reliable, luxury vehicle before I buy an older hydraulic equipped model.
I have a direct comparison between an old w203 and (still not that new anymore) w204 and the difference is very noticeable.
W203 is not sporty by any means but just has this kind of “weight” to it but I’d not consider it to be “heavy”.
W204 by comparison feels totally effortless, to the extent that I wonder if power steering works correctly in both cars.
As for the journalism, I find car reviews often flawed in terms of what I as a buyer would expect from a car - they focus too much on cars being “sporty” imho. I won’t even mention that so often top of the line models are reviewed while they most likely are only a fraction of sold cars and the experience may be totally different.