Modern Pentathlon is such an interesting discipline. How does one even get started with it?
I’ve heard jokes (especially back when they were discussing what should replace the horse leg, and one of the popular proposals was some form of cycling) that modern pentathletes are failed triathletes. The fact that one of the commentators was Heather Fell, former Olympic pentathlete-turned triathlete and presenter on the Global Triathlon Network YouTube channel is a pretty good example of this. Though Fell herself got into MP because she grew up riding horses and swimming competitively.
I know someone IRL who tried to get into MP via fencing. He was an extremely good HEMA fencer who also competed at a reasonably high level in sport fencing. I don’t know how successful he actually was in MP though.
I think that’s the great thing about a sport as weird as MP. There are so many different paths into the sport.
…especially back when they were discussing what should replace the horse leg, and one of the popular proposals was some form of cycling…
You know, I’m happy they went with the obstacle course thing instead of cycling. Keeps the spirit of the sport of both the ancient and modern pentathlon - vital skills of a good soldier.
I think that’s the great thing about a sport as weird as MP. There are so many different paths into the sport.
That’s interesting! My first instinct was that the barrier of entry was high because I assumed the horse leg made it prohibitively difficult to get into.
vital skills of a good soldier
Have you heard about the military pentathlon? If the original pentathlon was for classical Greek warfare and the modern pentathlon was for pre-WWI warfare, the military pentathlon is for late 20th/early 21st century warfare, with events including grenade throwing (both distance and accuracy) and shooting.
My first instinct was that the barrier of entry was high because I assumed the horse leg made it prohibitively difficult to get into
Honestly? Yeah, it kinda is. As someone who’s been a runner and swimmer my entire life, and fenced since the age of 13, I definitely would have been interested in trying out MP, were it not for how difficult it is to get into horse jumping. In 2021 I saw equestrian people claiming that MP participants mostly barely do any horse riding: just the bare minimum to not completely flunk out of the race because of it. And I never really saw MP people try to refute those claims, so I suspect it’s at least somewhat true. But even that is going to be much harder for people to get into than, say, triathlon.
As far as cycling, the proposal I most saw was specifically about mountain biking or BMX racing. Not necessarily things that you’d see very often today, but at least somewhat similar to something that may very well have been done in early 20th century warfare. In fact, I recall seeing a specific interview with a WW2 vet who escaped captivity and fled back towards his homeland (the exact thing the MP is supposed to replicate) in part on a bike. Track cycling or a road race would not really be appropriate, but one of the offroad types of cycling could work really well.
Have you heard about the military pentathlon?
I haven’t, no. It’s interesting - do you know how popular it is compared to MP? Is there any talk of it becoming an olympic sport and/or replacing MP?
As someone who’s been a runner and swimmer my entire life, and fenced since the age of 13, I definitely would have been interested in trying out MP, were it not for how difficult it is to get into horse jumping. In 2021 I saw equestrian people claiming that MP participants mostly barely do any horse riding: just the bare minimum to not completely flunk out of the race because of it.
That makes sense to me, and further makes the push to remove the horse leg sound very reasonable. I still think I prefer the obstacle course over BMX or mountain biking, though. I see your argument, but I still think cycling feels more “situationally useful” and obstacle course more universal. Then again, fencing is still in so 🤷♂️
Maybe another martial art should take its place, like Krav Maga?
Is there any talk of it becoming an olympic sport and/or replacing MP
To my knowledge, no. Its official website doesn’t even list any upcoming events, and its “news” section has had just one news article per year since 2021, and no more than 2 per year since 2017. I think it’s an interesting fun idea, but one that’s basically failed to take off. Kind of like the “equilateral triathlon” (a variant of triathlon with the aim that all 3 legs take roughly the same amount of time).
Maybe another martial art should take its place, like Krav Maga?
No, definitely not. If you were creating something like the military pentathlon, perhaps. But the modern pentathlon isn’t meant to be for 2024 warfare, it’s warfare from the 19th century. It was made redundant (in terms of being used in current warfare) by World War 1. It would be silly to try and update that, one century on.
and further makes the push to remove the horse leg sound very reasonable
Just out of curiosity, are you familiar with the event that led to the horse jumping being removed?
Just out of curiosity, are you familiar with the event that led to the horse jumping being removed?
I’m not. Your expertise in this field is far greater than mine - I just started to look into the discipline due to it catching my interest when gearing up for watching the Olympics.
Just fwiw, my “expertise” mostly stems from watching the Olympics in 2021 and reading commentary from people who knew better at the time. I had a very vague interest in the sport before then (because of my aforementioned experience with 3 out of the 5 disciplines), but never really took it anywhere because of the horses. I’m not really any serious sort of expert on it. So take anything I say as third-hand commentary from someone with a casual interest in the subject.
Anyway, unlike the dedicated equestrian events, MP participants get randomly assigned a horse to ride and given just 20 minutes to become acquainted with the horse before the jumping. This is meant to simulate the idea of the MP being about a captured soldier escaping captivity and grabbing a horse he can find to ride away on. But it does mean that if you randomly get assigned an uncooperative horse, or just one that doesn’t suit you personally…problems can arise. That’s what happened to a German competitor in 2021. Here’s a video of it.
Her coach was banned from the Olympics for that little tap you can see at 0:47, which was described as a violent punch and animal abuse. (Seems excessive to me, and like it was just so they could say they had done something after how poorly the horse seemed to have been treated in general. But I dunno, I’m not really a horse person to have the relevant expertise.) I went on some MP and equestrian pages to read what they had to say, and apparently the horse also refused to behave properly for the male pentathlete the day (or days? I forget the timeline) before. That said, consensus also seemed to be that she did not help herself by being so emotional and with some poor-quality riding, sending the horse mixed signals, etc. That she really epitomised that idea that pentathletes basically ignore the horse riding aspect. Still, her treatment of the horse, as well as the horse’s impact on her ability to compete collectively caused international outrage, which is what led the IUPM to begin investigating new options.
Incidentally, she’s competing again this year, under her married name of Annika Zillekens. She’s only done the first round of the fencing so far, and won 17 out of 35 bouts, putting her right in the middle of the rankings. A lot worse than last Olympics, where she was a serious medal contender before the horse.
Netherlands v Germany, gold medal match in hockey.
Down to a penalty shoot-out. I really like the format they use for shoot-outs here. It’s so much better than soccer. It’s still a bit of a weird minigame and divorced from the core of the normal game, but it feels a lot closer to normal play than in soccer. And it makes the whole thing so much more intense and captivating to watch.
If you prefer the hockey shootout over penalties in football, better get a time machine (and an airplane perhaps) and go watch the MLS in the 90s: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNExAtWu0CU
European Union solidly at #1 in the medal ranking again!
Damn this thread is so mega… so many comments…
I’ll start. Favorite events you’re looking forward to?
Yeah normally I’d start the conversation off, but I was running, then driving ~40 mins away to have dinner with the parents.
Watching the climbing at the moment. Geez it’s impressive what they can do.
Yeah Olympics are awesome for just admiring people’s skills at niche sports.
And no judgement. Reality comes first. I’m just poking fun at Lemmy’s small user base
Spain v India in the bronze medal match for hockey. Right on the buzzer, Spanish player takes a dive close to the goal circle, trying to milk a penalty. Ref absolutely not having any piece of it, just walks away from the whinging Spanish players. Brilliant to watch. Love that this sport seems to have much more integrity than soccer. Well played India, a well-deserved bronze!
